Load cycling and steel shot questions

[Champagne-N-Beer]

Hi All,

New to Calguns and am in need of some advice. My apologies if this has already been discussed, but my search did not find any results.

Recently several shotguns made there way to me and I am looking for advice on which loads will cycle smoothly and if steel shot is out of the question.

*1968 Browning Auto 5, 20 ga, 2 3/4, full choke
*1963 Remington 1100, 12 ga, 2 3/4, full choke
*1956 Remington 870 Wingmaster De Luxe, 12 ga, 2 3/4, Full Choke

All are in great shape and function perfectly. Ideally I would love to start shooting these oldies but I want to make sure I do the right thing, take care of them and only shoot loads they like; or maybe move them to the gun case if they really should not be everyday shooters (if advice so dictates).

Any advice for a novice? or am I resigned to having avoid steel shot, and try different loads to see what functions, spreads, and shoots best?

Thanks in advice for all your advice.

[NapalmCheese]

The best advice I can give you on the steel shot issue is to email the manufacturer and ask them.

My next best advice is, don't shoot steel shot through anything with a fixed choke. This is an arbitrary decision based on the idea that some chokes are rated for steel shot, others are not. If the steel in your barrel is not as hard as the steel shot you shoot, you can 'ring' your barrel and/or peen out your choke to something more open.

The federal lead ban was enacted in 1991, any shotgun made prior to that, unless otherwise noted (like in an email from the manufacturer), would not see steel shot from me.

If you use steel in an older gun, try to keep it under #4 shot and not in a gun with more than a modified choke (unless it's a steel rated choke).

On the Auto 5, change the recoil spring and the brass bushing. It may or may not be worn out, but at least you'll know that the brand new ones you put in there are definitely not worn out. Your A5 can be configured in two ways, for light or heavy loads. Start shooting with it on the heavy load setting, if it doesn't cycle reliably switch it to the light load setting.

Non-steel non-toxic shot exists, some of it is safe to use in older guns. Bismuth, Kent Tungsten Matrix, Hevi-Metal classic doubles (not the normal hevi-shot stuff), Nice shot, etc. They are more expensive than steel, but largely replicate (or surpass) the performance of lead.

[edgerly779]

^^^ what he said. I won't shoot steel thru my c&r shotguns which all of yours but the browning are. Get a new barrel for the 870 with screw in chokes also for the 1100. Or shoot them till they get blown out and cut off the barrels and have screw in chokes installed.

[Champagne-N-Beer]

Hi NapalmCheese. Thanks for the quick response! That is a great idea in regards to reaching out to the manufacturers, I will definitely do that. Any thoughts on lead shot loads? With some many advancements in shell powder, power, and shot in the past 50+ years I am wondering if there is a good range of load weight, power, size etc that would be either too light/heavy or just right for these standard 2 3/4 shooters.
Best -

[ricemanff]

My advice to you. Don't shoot steel shot thru any of those three. When you shoot steel your choke actually is stepped up one, so if it is a full it will be an extra full with steel. This action will actually begin to mushroom out the barrel. If you really must shoot a non toxic shot try bismuth, hevi-shot, something that is softer than steel.

[NapalmCheese]

Anything you can find in 2-3/4 inch should be fine for your guns. As I stated before, change the spring and friction piece on your A5, it'll thank you for it.

I'm not familiar with the 1100, but I would imagine it could use a new recoil spring too? I'm not sure.

The 870, and for all of the guns really, if the wood is good on the stock (not oil soaked, looks to be in good shape, no cracks, etc.) you should be fine shooting anything of the appropriate chamber length (2-3/4 inch). If the wood is suspect, is starting to crack, is totally oil soaked stick with the lighter, slower loads (1 oz 12 gauge, not sure about 20, as I don't own one). If the wood is bad and you get it fixed, shoot whatever you prefer.

You ever look at a shotshell box and see the 'drams equivalent'? This is a throwback to when shotguns shot blackpowder shells. A pretty typical load, just starting to get on the 'stout' side of things would have been 1-1/8 oz with 3 drams of black powder. That same load is still sold today (except with smokeless powder). Shotguns in the early 1900s did just fine shooting shells like that, yours will be just fine with pretty much any 2-3/4 inch shell you can find. I might stay away from the really heavy turkey loads, but that's about it.

[mjsweims]

The full chokes on all of them make them unsuitable for steel. Age-wise the A5 and 1100 are ok. The 870 may or may not be. The manufacturers all changed their barrel steel in the mid 50's and from then on were suitable, with appropriate chokes for steel shot. Theoretically the chokes on the 1100 and A5 can be opened up for steel shot.
Unless you will be hunting waterfowl or shooting in a lead free zone, why bother with steel? Lead can still be used for several more years.

[Mike A]

Good advice above, but notice that manufacturers are VERY conservative about steel in their older models for several reasons: 1) LAWYERS, and 2) they want to sell you a NEW gun!

I wouldn't shoot steel in a full choked fixed-choke gun, partly because it may "peen" the choke area and partly because, as stated, it makes for some very tight patters, often with a lot of "fliers" from shot distortion. I'd just get a new, more open-choked barrel for the Remingtons, or one with choke tubes, or have choke tubes fitted to the full-choke barrels you have. Problem solved--who says you can't solve problems by throwing money at 'em? (Nobody that's rich, that's for sure....).

You could also have tubes fitted to the A-5 (new A-5 barrels are really expensive).

Many of the warnings against "shooting steel in old guns" apply to OLD guns. These aren't.

[valleyhunter]

Do not shoot steel through any of these guns. With full chokes I know Browning and Remington both recommend not to because I have asked both companies.
Browning states not to shoot steel out of any Belgium made gun with fixed choked barrels. Remington advised to never shoot steel out of any of their guns with fixed full choke barrels.

You may be able to and have no ill effect or you may possibly bulge a choke like I did shooting steel through my older Beretta. I would hate to see you ruin a good barrel.

[Champagne-N-Beer]

Hi All,

Thank you for all the great replies! After reading all the posts I think I should have specified my goal for looking into different shot types.

I am getting back into shotgunning after being away for a decade+ and am looking for a great all-around gunner to shoot everything from trap, skeet, clays at the range to turkey, pheasant, waterfowl and critters.

I also have a Winchester Super X Model 1 full choke but, being new to all the different tubes etc, I am having a tough time understanding which of these guns would be great for what purpose. It seemed so much easier back in the day when I grew up as I did not know all the different types, but rather grabbed gun "x" when I wanted to hunt grouse to gun "y" when I was going duck hunting, and now I don't own one of those fancy "do-it-all" 3" multi-choke guns where I could just set it up for the intended hunting/shooting purpose...

Any advice on which of the guns, including the SX1, would be good for what purpose? Thanks!

[bigbearbear]

All 3 are still in production, no? You might be able to get a new replacement barrel for them, one with removable choke and that will allow steel shots to be used.

[NapalmCheese]

I would use any one of those as an all around shotgun (with appropriate ammo). Pick the one that feels best to you and use appropriate ammo for your chosen game. All three of those are do-it-all shotguns of their time.

Now, the only problem would be the full choke. Using something like Nice Shot that will pattern like lead I wouldn't have an issue pass shooting ducks or geese, but that pattern is probably tighter than I would like to see for shooting birds over decoys. Actually, that 20 gauge would probably be fine over decoys with a full choke, still a little tight but not terrible. Probably also fine for shooting spooky doves and perfect for late season pheasants or turkeys either spring or fall. For things like quail or ducks over decoys (birds that hold a little closer) something more open than full will do less damage to the bird.

That being said, you can get spreader ammo, which should open your full pattern up to a mod or so, thus increasing the usefulness of those three shotguns (http://www.polywad.com/spredr.html).

You'll have to buy some different types of ammo (lead, non-lead, and spreader) and pattern your shotgun. I pattern mine at 40 yards.

I'm not kidding when I say all three of those were do-it-all shotguns of their day. Even that 20 gauge. When lead shot was used for ducks, plenty of people used 20 gauges. Ammo is lighter, easier to carry etc. Even today I know people that hunt ducks with 20 gauges (with a 3 inch chamber using steel or lead alternative). I wouldn't feel really handicapped using 20 gauge Nice Shot loads for ducks.