"SAWED-OFF" V/S SBS legality question

[SoldierLife7]

Was having a discussion today with a friend about shotgun laws.

I know that it is legal to "saw-off" a shotgun barrel as long as it meets the 18" minimum barrel length, and the OAL of 26".

He argues that it is legal to own a shotgun that is 18" bbl, and 26" OAL, but that it has to come from the manufacturer in that configuration. He argues that you have to have an FFL07 in order to cut down a barrel.

Anyway, I remember reading somewhere that the ATF says that sawed-off shotgun and short barreled shotgun are interchangeable terms.

Does anyone know where I can find the applicable laws and definitions?

I have already tried both Google and the "search" function without much success...

[Ninety]

Didn't you just have this thread last nite? You owe your friend 50 bucks bud!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=857250&highlight=bet

A little discussion about it right there for you

[SoldierLife7]

Didn't you just have this thread last nite? You owe your friend 50 bucks bud!

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=857250&highlight=bet

A little discussion about it right there for you

Thank you for sharing a pointless discussion with me...

If you read my original post, I asked the following question:

Does anyone know where I can find the applicable laws and definitions?

[Vertigofirearms]

"sawed-off" is more slang, SBS (short barreled shotgun) is more proper. However the Serbu is a smooth-bore large bore pistol.

[jaymz]

Nobody can point out applicable law because it probably doesn't exist. I've never seen anything pertaining to who must cut the barrel to whatever length. If it meets the 18" & 26" requirements, you're GTG. It's no different than having a non-07 FFL cut down a rifle barrel to thread and re-crown for a muzzle brake.

[SJgunguy24]

Who perfoms the work makes no difference, it's the final product that matters. The only time when it will matter is when manufacturing NFA devices.
Let's say you have a cruiser Mossberg 500 thats never had a stock installed. Well you could turn that into an AOW (barrel under 18") legally, even do it yourself. But you need to have permission
(tax stamp in hand) before doing the work. An 07/02FFL/SOT can do it anytime and only needs to notify the ATF when it's completed and when transferred. Now if you have a shotgun with a 24" barrel, anyone can chop it down as long as the final product is legal to own without a tax stamp.

[kingjoey]

Your buddy is an idiot. As long as the shotgun has an 18+" barrel and is 26+" OAL, it is legal no matter how it got to that configuration.

[kingjoey]

However the Serbu is a smooth-bore large bore pistol.

No, the Serbu is an AOW. By being a "smoothbore" it cannot legally be a pistol, and by being over .50 caliber ("large bore" as you stated) it would be a "destructive device" if rifled. Hence it falls under the category of Any Other Weapon.

[SoldierLife7]

Thanks for the feedback everyone

[SoldierLife7]

Your buddy is an idiot. As long as the shotgun has an 18+" barrel and is 26+" OAL, it is legal no matter how it got to that configuration.

I wouldn't call him an idiot, just misinformed. Lots of people spread FUD, and it's up to us as individuals to research the truth. You might be surprised how many people believe that sawing off a barrel is illegal.

[ke6guj]

No, the Serbu is an AOW. By being a "smoothbore" it cannot legally be a pistol, and by being over .50 caliber ("large bore" as you stated) it would be a "destructive device" if rifled. Hence it falls under the category of Any Other Weapon.

incorrect. the Serbu is considered a smoothbore pistol and that is why it is classified as an AOW.

Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

[Chaos47]

By your friends logic it would be illegal for anyone to change the barrel on an AR or build an AR upper from scratch.

There would be thousands of felons out there if it was illegal to chop your shotgun barrel yourself (to legal lengths).

We can't point you to the law because the law tells you what you can not do. Not what you can do.

[Quiet]

Your buddy is an idiot. As long as the shotgun has an 18+" barrel and is 26+" OAL, it is legal no matter how it got to that configuration.

Keep in mind that CA measures overall length with the firearm in the shortest possible firing configuration.

In addition, CA assault weapons laws prohibits semi-auto shotguns from having a folding/extending stock and a pistol grip.

So, not all configurations are CA legal.

[Ninety]

Thank you for sharing a pointless discussion with me...

If you read my original post, I asked the following question:

Does anyone know where I can find the applicable laws and definitions?

For one I was trying to point you to a thread that may or may not of answered your questions had you paid attention..

and I bumped your post you little ....

[kingjoey]

incorrect. the Serbu is considered a smoothbore pistol and that is why it is classified as an AOW.

Any other weapon. Any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or a revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition.

My point is that it is classified as an "AOW", not a "large bore smoothbore pistol". The fact that it has a grip and no buttstock makes it technically a pistol but not legally one in the common definition (as it is a Title II firearm).