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[Galileo]

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[Brd_Hntr]

I have got to applaud anyone who takes the time to pattern their shotgun. You should take a look at Bob Brister's book Shotgunning The art and science. What you are calling a string is the pattern width. The shot string usually refers to the fact that the pellets don't all hit at the same time. There is the width of the pattern, controlled by choke, and the length of the string of pellets. Think in 3D terms. The cloud of shot isn't like a pancake it is more like a swarm of bees. The cloud has width, which results in the pattern, and length, the shot string. Brister did a lot of experiments to figure out what was happening you might enjoy his practical approach to the problem.

[aristeia]

Unless I missed something, you did your test out of the Versa Max Tactical with a 22" barrel using different chokes, then concluded that the pattern width is dictated by the choke and not the barrel

...but...


Did you try patterning it with a different barrel?

I don't mean to be critical, but I think I took one too many methodology class in college

[sargenv]

Yeah, coming from a single projectile firearm like a lot of people do, it's a bit interesting to wrap your mind around the fact that it's actually a shot string, or "cloud" of pellets that a shotgun throws.. The rounder shot tends to fly a bit faster than the stuff at the bottom of the shot column that has been compressed a bit and is usually mis-shapen from round that can cause flyers..

I always tell people that for better patterns, you need to steer yourself away from the cheap stuff and more towards the slightly more expensive target stuff.. since harder, higher quality shot tends to resist compression better than the softer non target grade loads do..

[hermosabeach]

One of my instructors has a 13 or 14" NFA Remmington 870 with a gang comp

As velocity drops, the pattern loses density.

Up close it is a super tight gun. By 20 yards it really opens up.

He had Hans modify the gun as the patterns were junk to him with a shortened barrel.

I do not think you see the velocity drop as much from an 18-24" gun as you would with the shorter guns.

Have you tried your same tests at 40 yards on the patterning board?

It is way beyond common self defense distance but it might show a difference between the barrel length and chokes more as at 40 yards the velocity has started to possibly slow down

[8886]

Yes Virgina, a short barrel will affect the spread. These make short barrel shotguns (10 inch basically) useless outside a room to room setting when using shot shells. Oh, and if you plan on getting one of these, go for the SBS and not the AOW.


And as far as bird hunting/clay shooting, 10 ga > 12 ga w/ 3/12 shell. Cloud vs funnel.

[8886]

Better loadings = better patterns. 8 pellets of 00 Buck create a better pattern over 9.

[Dattebayo]

I agree that testing at longer distances would provide much better data. I was thinking 25 yds. Especially considering that the reason I wanted to test this, was people saying you "can't" shoot skeet with a 22" barrel. It is also true that the shot doesn't spread "evenly" as the string travels, it actually spreads outwards in an arc, so longer distances will show a big change. Unfortunately, again, I had to test with what I had available.

I personally have a 20 inch Maverick 88 and a 26" CZ 712. I can tell you that the shot pattern between the two with cylinder choked barrels are the same with no difference in pattern size.

Heck I have shot trap with the 20" M88 and still hit 23/25. Skeet, which is even closer range, it would be less of an issue.

Where the short barrel becomes a problem is the sight plain and swinging balance. The shorter barrel has a smaller sight plane making pointing the shotgun more difficult. The shorter barrel also doesn't swing as well as longer barrel shotguns, where the weight of the longer barrel helps give a smooth swing when shooting crossers.

Barrel length doesn't effect pattern size up to 18 inches, which is the legal length of a basic shotgun. Any smaller barrel would be pointless unless you are trying to conceal a shotgun. Also with barrels longer than 18 inches, the pressure gains and losses are insigificant.

[sargenv]

Actually, Skeet is shot within about 25 yards or less if you do everything right. Trap becomes difficult if you let the target get too far out since you start at 16 yards and usually hit them in the 30-45 yard range depending on how long you wait.. if you go back to 27 yard handicap, the distance grows.. and that is why people use Modified -> full choke.

Sporting clays gets you all over the place.. from 10 yards out to 45+ and some clubs use smaller targets.. I used to swap out my chokes but found that swapping up loads works effectively as well.. 7/8 of #9's for up close, 1 1/8 of 7.5's for longer shot.. and I keep the same choke in the barrel.. Improved Cylinder.. it's amazing what you can hit if you know your gun.. most people will overchoke and miss because of it.

[savannah]

Great posts sargenv. I think I could learn a lot from you.

[Gutz]

Why did the OP remove all his posts???

[savannah]

I wondered the same thing. Then I looked at his profile and saw all 38 posts were gone. Probably got mad about some post on the forums so he basically deleted his own account.