not as lethal shells

[happy hooligan]

Has anyone used these as a home defense item? I'm worried about using buckshot (if I have to) for two reasons. One the receiving end of the buck shot will make a very messy stain, and two the buckshot will destroy bits of my house in the process.

Does the rubber buckshot work or just make the intruder angry? Looks like in close quarters it might be the best of both worlds. No mess and no damage or light damage.

And are they legal in CA?

[metalliman545]

if youre going to shoot, shoot using the best round. why are you defending yourself/family with plastic because with the alternative "itll leave a mess". the mess will be the least of your worries if you ever shoot someone for breaking in

[Quiet]

Less lethal (rubber/bean bag/etc) rounds are legal in CA.

However, the standard to determine if it's use is legal is the same as lethal ammo (buckshot/slugs/etc).

Meaning needs to be when you are "in fear for your life or the life of another".

Property can be replaced, your life or your loved one's life can not.

If you are going to discharge a firearm in self defense; then use lethal ammo that will stop an aggressor, not less lethal which may stop an aggressor.

[Merc1138]

If you need to shoot someone with a shotgun(or any firearm for that matter), it's because your life is in danger. Who cares about a mess? You should be shooting to stop the threat. Not shooting to scare them off. Not shooting to hurt them and teach them a life lesson.

What happens if your rubber shot or beanbag doesn't stop the attacker? Now you've wasted your first shot and have to shoot them again, hopefully with real ammo if you only had one less lethal round in the gun. If you have a couple less lethal rounds, are you just going to keep shooting and hope the attacker stops before getting to the buck shot? Did you fill the entire magazine with less lethal ammo and now have to load the real stuff in the middle of a fight?

Look, the "mess" should be the least of your concerns. Personally, I want to use the ammo with the highest chance of stopping the threat. Not worry about a possible "mess".

[alfred1222]

Good luck defending your reasons for using lethal force when you used less lethal rounds... Rubber bullets are for riot control, not HD

[rsrocket1]

A clean pristine house with a dead homeowner because he would rather keep his house neat while the intruder used a real gun with real bullets. Or an intruder with some bruises carves up a homeowner with a knife.

Use 00 buck or #4 buck.

[kdruff2]

I've got rubber less than lethal rounds, 00 buck and slugs. I've gone to the range with each. I picked up the less than lethal rounds because you just don't know when you'll need them - deer in your backyard, bear in your trash can...

Other than being no lethal, one major drawback is that they won't cycle or extract/eject. You'll need to manually eject the shells. This is probably due to the weight of the rounds. IMHO, this makes them less than desirable option in a HD scenario( or didn't cycle in my shotgun(semiauto 12 ga).

Hope the above helps.

[happy hooligan]

thanks for the advice. I didn't know they even existed for consumers. I was just asking the question. Apparently nobody likes them.

[NRai2001]

What about just regular target federal loads?? I was shooting my hatsan today and was really underwhelmed by it (haven't shot my shotgun for a while)?

What kinda damage could regular federal target loads do?

[CA-Libertarian]

if youre going to shoot, shoot using the best round. why are you defending yourself/family with plastic because with the alternative "itll leave a mess". the mess will be the least of your worries if you ever shoot someone for breaking in

Well said! Agree 100% If you want less than lethal use Streetwise/Foxx labs OC. Trust me, we used that as bouncers and it will stop just about anyone dead in their tracks, even those coked out and drunk out of their minds! I have broken up/cleared many a large fights/rumbles with it. You can also get a asp, bat, striking device ect and they too are quite efficient but less so on people drugged out and not feeling much after adrenalin kicks. You can literally walk on broken bones when adrenalin is pumping in high enough doses. The sight and respiratory distress is much more efficient. Leave the bean bags and flash bangs (though Ammotogo has a good deal right now) for the cops. Tactically they have their limits as far as practical applications.

[themood]

I disagree with those that say how worthless less lethal ammo is. Everyone seems to operate under the assumption that only psychopathic coked out zombies that will absorb a dozen rounds from a .50 bmg break into houses. Yes that does happen ( well not the zombie part), but more often than not they are simply targets of opportunity. I agree that no matter what you are loaded with, you should not be brandishing or using a firearm unless you believe your life is in danger. That being said, I don't feel that I need to kill them. My goal is for them to get the hell out of my house and leave me and my family alone. Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't lose a wink of sleep over greasing some dirtbag all over my hallway. On the other hand, my wife and kids WILL. Also, if I have six in the tube and the first round doesn't stop the intruder, I am confident in my ability to get more rounds downrange quickly. In spite of all of this, I have been unsuccessful with several brands of less lethal ammunition. Too often they just don't eject, as previous posts have mentioned. Because of this, I stick with 00 or 000 buck.

[CA-Libertarian]

What about just regular target federal loads?? I was shooting my hatsan today and was really underwhelmed by it (haven't shot my shotgun for a while)?

What kinda damage could regular federal target loads do?

Point blank or near can be lethal. Further out the spread will be too wide. They will be picking pellets out of them for hours afterwards. Couple that with adrenalin and one could still advance the fight, although, most criminals will flee one resistance, especially the loud concussion, pain, and sight of blood/injury. That said you too will be ringing and have your bell rocked. Particularly if inside. Most don't account for this. You won't have ear plugs on if/when the SHTF. The point is to end it as quickly as possible and secure your person/family. Not the best idea unless it's your only option.

[bernieb90]

I definitely would not bet my life or the lives of my family on less than lethal ammunition. A guy in Ventura county took two beanbag rounds to the torso, and continued to dance around like it was nothing before being tackled by 4-5 Deputies who took several minutes to subdue him.

http://malibu.patch.com/articles/pursuit-on-pacific-coast-highway-ends-with-arrest-of-dui-suspect

Note officers firing less lethal munitions in LE are always backed up by other officers with real guns firing real bullets. As a person defending your home from an intruder you do not have that luxury.

Lethal threats need to be met with equal force. Me and my family dying does not make me a more moral person.

[NRai2001]

Point blank or near can be lethal. Further out the spread will be too wide. They will be picking pellets out of them for hours afterwards. Couple that with adrenalin and one could still advance the fight, although, most criminals will flee once resistance, especially the loud concussion, pain, and sight of blood/injury. That said you too will be ringing and have your bell rocked. Particularly if inside. Most don't account for this. You won't have ear plugs on if/when the SHTF. The point is to end it as quickly as possible and secure your person/family. Not the best idea unless it's your only option.

Ya I would go with 00 vs #4 shot... But I ve read about many guys who load up their HD shotguns with birdshot..

I know birdshot is different than target loads but what makes it much different? I think there is less powder behind it?

Either way just messing around in my backyard (we live in the country side) after not really shooting for a long while I just really felt underwhelmed by target rounds?

[CBR_rider]

I wouldn't use them unless you just wanted to screw around with them at the range (or as previously mentioned, persuade some unwanted wildlife to go to another yard perhaps). As has already been mentioned, they can be lethal when shot at close range, they have pretty minimal range, don't always cycle right, etc. If for whatever reason I wanted to use a less than lethal weapon in my house I would just have a paintball gun with 200 paintballs ready to go...