UTS-15 Legal Question

[Banaholic California]

This one is sexy. I'm looking to pick it up at some point in the next year. Price isn't an issue but I don't want to break any laws owning it. I would be interested it in open carrying it in the future when the recent open carry ban gets overturned and you can walk around with it loaded..

I have read all posts in the different threads I could find on this baby and the KSG but couldn't find a definitive opinion as to whether its legal or not. I know that the manufacturer asked the cal DOJ and got this in response...

For those of you interested, I just received a reply from UTAS:

Dear Steve:

Thanks for your inquiry regarding the UTS-15 and California compliance.
The California DOJ regulations are very clear regarding shotguns. These
regs state that a pump action shotgun without a rotary magazine or other
magazine capable of holding 10 rounds is California compliant. These
regulations specifically name the Street Sweeper, Laws 12 and Striker 12 as
being non-compliant. There are more strict regulations applying to
autoloading shotguns, but the pump action situation is pretty clear. We
have contacted the California Department of Justice and they report that
they have made no ruling on shotguns with dual magazines of 7 rounds. They
go on to say that while they have not declared such shotguns as being
non-compliant, they are leaving that up to local jurisdictions, presumably
county attorneys and local law enforcement. We would suggest that you check
with your local authorities and get a reading from them. We would also
appreciate you sharing any information that you think might be useful to us
and to other California customers.

In summary, the State of California DOJ has not said that the UTS-15 is
not non-compliant but perhaps local authorities might have a different view.

Thanks for contacting us.

It seems the overwhelming opinion is that the KSG is legal and alot of people say this should be legal regardless of the button alternating between the two magazines but I don't wanna be the test dummy for case law and risk serious legal trouble if I lost a case not to mention having to spend a butt load on attorneys etc....

Is it safe to order one of these. I know Atlantic firearms will be selling them starting in July for just under $1200. Also with regards to the KSG and multiple magazine fed pump action Shotguns in General I saw that some users claimed to have letters from attorneys or something stating this doesn't violate laws. ANyone know where I could read these letters to better inform myself about the risk in owning one of these.



Here it is in all its awesomeness...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPpBKthIoVE

[MuddvilleHustler]

It looks bad *ss but it appears to be a Mother Sucker Son of a Glitch to load. Did you see how far he was shoving his finger in the tube. Last time I shoved my finger in ... well you don't want to know the rest.

[Banaholic California]

It looks bad *ss but it appears to be a Mother Sucker Son of a Glitch to load. Did you see how far he was shoving his finger in the tube. Last time I shoved my finger in ... well you don't want to know the rest.

Was in a turkish prison... loading one of these lol?

IT looks awesome and much more durable than the all to sought after ksg. Beside that, it beats waiting 3 years to get one... Although you do have a point about shoving your fingers up there. Having to do that should make it cal legal. WHo cares if it can fire 15 round relatively quickly? If you gotta give it a colonoscopy to reload it that should factor into lessening its overall "evilness."

[Atlantic Firearms]

We should be range testing a UTAS later this week at our faclilty and will post more detailed pics and a You Tube video when we are complete .

[Lexustech48]

Holy mother trucker!!!! I wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of one of those thats for sure.

[Sicarius]

The concept is great but the loading aspect looks terrible. The KSG isn't great either but looks a tad better...
Kevin

[-hanko]

A little OT...

...but what does that little piglet weigh??

-hanko

[PEBKAC]

My only question at this point is will it work with those adorable Aguila mini-shells.

Because if it does...

[Atlantic Firearms]

We will be posting a video comparing the UTAS & KSG shotgun in approx 2 weeks this should help with the comparison of the 2.

[Richard Erichsen]

...but what does that little piglet weigh??

-hanko

Lots of aluminum in the chassis (or so I thought), umpteen one-and-a-quarter oz. loads, optics and lights draped off the rails, it's likely a good size chuck of mass. According to the video though, it's 6.9 lbs. empty. Probably shoots pretty soft with full mag tube and might balance pretty well given the arrangement. No flock of pheasants will be safe! LOL!

R

[Richard Erichsen]

My only question at this point is will it work with those adorable Aguila mini-shells.

Because if it does...

Now that would be something. Do you mean the 2" jobbies, or the adorable 1.5" jobbies that only seem to work in the old Winchester 1200/1300 (reportedly). But will it cycle as fast as a well-worn, smooth as silk 1200/1300? That's the real question.

R

[-hanko]

Lots of aluminum in the chassis (or so I thought), umpteen one-and-a-quarter oz. loads, optics and lights draped off the rails, it's likely a good size chuck of mass. According to the video though, it's 6.9 lbs. empty. Probably shoots pretty soft with full mag tube and might balance pretty well given the arrangement. No flock of pheasants will be safe! LOL!

R

Thank you...I think relearning mounting and my swing with that thing for birds might get interesting...might get a few punctures in your back with a sling.

-hanko

[Banaholic California]

We will be posting a video comparing the UTAS & KSG shotgun in approx 2 weeks this should help with the comparison of the 2.

bump... did you ever make that vid? Also I really want one but just wanna make sure its not illegal. Can someone please help with the legality question?

[Richard Erichsen]

bump... did you ever make that vid? Also I really want one but just wanna make sure its not illegal. Can someone please help with the legality question?

Pump action and there is no specific language regarding tube fed magazines. It may go against the intent of the laws that limit to 10 rounds, but that isn't how the laws are written.

For all the bullpup modern configuration goodness, the KSG and this UTS shotgun have a few things in common according to early :

1) Awkward controls
2) Terrible triggers with long, heavy pulls
3) Very slow to reload, not just because of the shell count, but because of the way in which the shells have to be inserted
4) Fragility, leading to parts breakage
5) Pump action is rough, slow and heavy

Things going for it:

1) Reasonably light and short
2) Twice the shell count of most shotguns using 2 3/4" defensive loads
3) Balances well and points fairly naturally
4) You'll be the only kid on your block to own one so you can sell it at 150-300% retail
5) The action will smooth out in time like most shotguns

R

[Banaholic California]

Pump action and there is no specific language regarding tube fed magazines. It may go against the intent of the laws that limit to 10 rounds, but that isn't how the laws are written.

For all the bullpup modern configuration goodness, the KSG and this UTS shotgun have a few things in common according to early :

1) Awkward controls
2) Terrible triggers with long, heavy pulls
3) Very slow to reload, not just because of the shell count, but because of the way in which the shells have to be inserted
4) Fragility, leading to parts breakage
5) Pump action is rough, slow and heavy

Things going for it:

1) Reasonably light and short
2) Twice the shell count of most shotguns using 2 3/4" defensive loads
3) Balances well and points fairly naturally
4) You'll be the only kid on your block to own one so you can sell it at 150-300% retail
5) The action will smooth out in time like most shotguns

R

hmmm so basically if you order one the justice department doesn't know if its legal or not so its up to the police and da. If they don't like you or don't like guns they can just decide to arrest you and try to convict of crimes the state itself didn't know existed? Sounds like the rule of law to me...