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Vang Comp Thunder Stick Summit Report.

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  • W.R.Buchanan
    Veteran Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 3378

    Vang Comp Thunder Stick Summit Report.

    OK,,, You missed it! This was the best and most intense Training I have ever gotten, and after 20 years of going to Front Sight that is saying something !!!

    The people teaching the classes were the Highest Rated Firearms Trainers in the US. And I can verify that they were indeed that !!!

    Layout:. The courses were laid out in 5, 3 hour Blocks. 2 on Friday, 2 on Saturday, and 1 on Sunday. There was also Optional Night Shoots on Friday and Saturday, and a bunch of Extra Stuff, like Dealer and Manufacturer Demos of new products on Sunday Afternoon. Lunch was served all 3 days.

    Me and my Bro In Law did the 5 classes we wanted and chose not to do the Night Shoots, simply because we were completely wore out from shooting during the day.

    I shot 400+ rounds of Birdshot, @25 rounds of Buckshot and 20 or so Slugs. And the Walmart on Highway 160 going West out of Las Vegas has the 100 round boxes of Winchester or Federal #8 Birdshot in stock for $36 !!!! I took my A5, the "Monkeyberg" and my 20" M500, and shot all 3.

    Our First Class on Friday Morning was given by Rob and Matt Haught (Father and Son) Rob Haught goes back to the beginning days of ISPC, and IDPA Competitions Shooting with Hackathorn, Cooper and others who invented the way we shoot Handguns now. This first class was designed to be a Warm Up and expose us to a Shotgun Technique called "Push Pull" which Rob invented back in the 1990's and has taught to various Govt Agencies. It is pretty simple and it works pretty well once you get the hang of it, You simply Push Forward on the Fore End of the gun and pull back on the Buttstock. About 70/30 between the two.

    What this does is "Mitigate Recoil" to a great extent as well as cutting down on Muzzle Rise. Pretty much all of the instructors at this event use this technique and I saw two examples that were in different classes that were pretty amazing. One instructor actually put the Butt of the gun in his Crotch!!! and pulled the trigger.. The gun didn't move!!! Which was obviously a good thing?
    The second was a Woman, who is an Instructor, but just a hanger on in the classes, Shoot 4 targets in 1.4 Seconds,,, with a Pump Gun!!! There was no Recoil, and no Muzzle Rise, and She was shooting Mid Range Buckshot! The best I've ever done with my M500's was 3 seconds. I did 2 seconds once with my A5 Semi Auto using #8 Birdshot. I'm practicing this every chance I get and started yesterday after my Weekly Skeet Shoot.

    Our Second Class was Called "Smooth Operator" Put on by Zach and Cagle and it taught different Techniques for Running the Gun Smoothly and Efficiently. The thing about Shotguns is that they are Ammo Hungry Beasts that usually only have 6 to 8 rounds on board. So,,, you have to reload them frequently. If you are in a Home Defense Situation You will probably only have what is on the gun when you go to war with the Invaders. In my Case that is a 18" M500 that is stored "Cruiser Ready" (5 in Magazine, hammer down on an Empty Chamber, Safety OFF, and a 6 round Velcro Side Saddle on the side of the gun. So 11 rounds total. If I have Pants on, I can grab two more Cards close by with 6 more rounds each for a total of 23 rounds total to fight with. Which hopefully will be enough to prevail in my Home or Outdoors on my Property.

    I have lots of Training feeding the gun off the Side Saddle and Port Loading it, so I could do that OK, but then we were exposed to the Technique call "Violin Loading" where you rest the Butt of the gun laying flat over your shoulder, and pull rounds out of the Side Saddle or Dump Bag and stuff them into the magazine. This is much faster and easier than loading from the underside of the gun, because you can see the Loading Port, as opposed to feeling around for it. Learned a bunch of other small advantages that must be Practiced to get good with. This was also the class where the instructor shot the gun off his Crotch!

    Our Third Class was "Multiple Target Engagement." It was given by Steve Fisher who was a big guy with Experience with virtually every kind of shooting you can do with a Firearm, from real live Combat both Foreign or Domestic, to Hunting Everything from Birds to Deer to Big Game in Africa. He lives in the Upper part of Michigan and drives 20,000 miles a year teaching everybody and their dogs how to use Firearms for anything and we're talking ALL the Govt Agencies. This was actually a pretty simple class and we shot a lot. I shot over 150 rounds of Birdshot and another 25 rounds of Buck and 20 Slugs all in 3 hours, mostly from my A5. Me and him got along famously simply because he wanted my A5 in the worst way!!! He also had a pretty colorful vocabulary. This is the class where we saw the Lady Shoot 4 targets in 1.4 seconds. Steve did it in 1.2 seconds! that is a .3 second Split for each target. The technique was all about timing Eye Movement to the next target as the round from the last target is still in the air. You are literally moving the muzzle as soon as the Round clears the barrel! It will take practice.

    Or Fourth Class was Cornering, Cover, and CQB, and was taught by Ex LEO Greg Ellifritz who also teaches Law Enforcement, FBI, and Armed Forces. We learned a bunch of Techniques for clearing rooms, and Advanced Techniques I'd never heard of for getting at anyone in a Room no matter where they are in the room. This is totally aimed at clearing your home if you have Family present to defend. We were urged to just leave if nobody else was home to avoid a gun fight or whatever you may not know about. We drilled and shot a lot of the Scenarios.

    The Fifth Class was Retention and Disarms NO LIVE AMMO. It was also given by Greg Ellifritz and we learned so many useful ways to prevent someone from taking your gun away from you and using it on you, as well as several ways to seriously hurt them if they Try !!!!! I picked up two new ways to END someone with my bare hands, and it is something I could actually do if I needed to. We drilled it enough so that it is now part of me !!! And it ain't that hard!!!

    We were Plum Tuckered out each night when we got back to Bro's house in Las Vegas. The Weather was perfect at 85 F the first day 81 F the second and 75 F the third. a little rain here and there. Luckily they didn't try to run us too hard and there was several Iterations I sat out in the Afternoons due to Low Energy.

    Luckily for all of you who wanted to go but couldn't get it together it will be done again next year and I am pushing Cody at Vang Comp to do 2 Thunder Sticks next year. One in March/April and one in October/November. so you will have multiple chances to get trained in the Art of Tactical Shotgun.

    We had a GREAT TIME!! Thanks Cody and all the guys who helped put it on.

    Randy
    Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
    Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
    Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
    Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

    It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com
  • #2
    Capybara
    CGSSA Coordinator
    CGN Contributor
    • Feb 2012
    • 15360

    Great report, thank you for filling us in on what we missed. Maybe next year I can make it happen, hopefully!
    Sounds like it puts you a million miles ahead from where you would be with any other shotgun training.
    NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer

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    • #3
      W.R.Buchanan
      Veteran Member
      • Jan 2008
      • 3378

      Sounds like it puts you a million miles ahead from where you would be with any other shotgun training.

      Yes it does, and that was what I was trying to convey when talking about it before.

      This weekend taught us how to run our $1700 Berettas and $500 Mossberg's or 870's. Just spending money on a nice Shotgun is pointless if you aren't gonna learn how to use it.

      Nobody is born knowing how to do anything, you have to be taught, That's what Teachers and Parents are for.

      Anyone who thinks they can get everything they need to Prevail in a Real live Gunfight off the Internet shouldn't ever get in a Real Live Gun Fight.

      At least I know how to avoid a gunfight. and you don't even need a gun for that.

      They asked me at what point I was willing to kill someone? I said if it's in my house and it isn't Blond or have a Tail,,, it's gettin' Shot!

      Randy
      Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 10-05-2025, 8:52 AM.
      Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
      Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
      Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
      Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

      It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
      www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

      Comment

      • #4
        W.R.Buchanan
        Veteran Member
        • Jan 2008
        • 3378

        Wow, I guess hardly anybody was that interested in this? Too bad.

        Randy
        Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
        Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
        Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
        Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

        It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
        www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

        Comment

        • #5
          Capybara
          CGSSA Coordinator
          CGN Contributor
          • Feb 2012
          • 15360

          I've noticed when looking for courses and instruction, there seems to be little interest in learning shotgun as a tactical weapon, which is strange since it's a better HD weapon than a rifle IMHO.
          NRA Certified Metallic Cartridge Reloading Instructor, Shotgun Instructor and Range Safety Officer

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          Comment

          • #6
            Yuki
            Member
            • Aug 2013
            • 374

            Wow, amazing write-up on what sounds like an amazing class! How many students were in each class and do you need to be at a certain experience level to participate? Thanks!

            Comment

            • #7
              W.R.Buchanan
              Veteran Member
              • Jan 2008
              • 3378

              Yuki: There was 16 people in each class. and 10 classes total. And 5, 3-4 hour Blocks of Training over 2 1/2 days. If you are a "Newbee" to Shotguns,,, There was a Mandatory Beginners Class which was 3 Blocks long, and also had 16 people in it. We were not "Newbees" so we didn't do that class. The whole point of that class was to orient you on Loading, Unloading, Safe Handling and Shooting of a Tactical Shotgun.

              These are not "Bird Guns." They are one of the "Most Formidable Weapons" on the Battlefield, and are designed to "Kill People !!!",,, And inside 100 yards they are "King of the Jungle for that purpose.!!!"
              Hence the desire of the Instructors to have Total Muzzle Awareness, and Absolute Safe Gun Handling on the Firing Line... Point Being,,, if you accidentally shoot someone they will probably be Dead or Maimed for Life.! And they don't want that!

              There is a bunch of Videos on YouTube on this and previous classes that you can look at to get an idea of what was going on. Well worth a look.

              Capy: My earlier point that if you are willing to spend $1700+ on a Beretta 1301, but not willing to spend any money learning how to use it, (and there are plenty of them here at Calguns) then the question becomes why did they buy it in the first place?. Are they just Posers ? Especially when you could buy a M500 for $500 and spend the other $1200 on training.

              Then there are the "Real Men" who only Train with 3" Magnum Buckshot, because anything less is just for Wusses, But usually end up putting the gun in a closet or selling it when reality sets in. You learn Gun Handling and Controlling Recoil with #8 Birdshot so you aren't getting the "Literal Snot" blown out of you every time you pull the trigger. Then once you get that down you can shoot some heavy hitters just so you know what it's like. But by then you will have realized that for 99% of your Combat Usage, Low Recoil Tactical Buckshot and Slugs will do whatever you need to do, and not hurt you in the process.

              Now,,, I have only fired a few 3" Mag Bucks, and exactly 2 High Base Slugs, but I have had enough Training that I can mitigate the recoil of those rounds, and actually hit the target twice if I needed to IE: the Charging Polar Bear or other Large Meat Eater !

              Anyway I hope this answers some questions about what we experienced last weekend,.

              Randy
              Last edited by W.R.Buchanan; 10-13-2025, 11:51 AM.
              Rule #1 Liberals screw up everything they touch.
              Rule #2 Whatever they accuse you of, they are already doing.
              Rule #3 Liberals lie about anything no matter how insignificant.
              Rule #4 If all else fails, they call you a Racist!

              It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,, It is how well you do what you don't know how to do.
              www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

              Comment

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