shotgun for a poor man.

[runway1]

. ...i will be using this for hunting, and would like to make it as versatile as possible hence the wanting of a scope mount, ...

Hunting what? Upland dove/chucker .....geese....turkey...pig? A scope on a shotgun has very limited use. Do you want a HD gun? With that, you'll have a 16"/18" barrell - which is almost useless for ducks/geese/pigs.

So, I would say you first determine your primary goal. A HD gun or a pig gun with scope?

[robcoe]

If you get a 500 you can replace the factory slide and stock with aftermarket ones that look really good, and the 500 has a massive ammount of aftermarket support.

Also if you can find one the Winchester 1300 can be found used very cheaply and they look nice plus mine has the smoothest action I have ever used on a shotgun..

[mikey357]

at this point, making a decision is way to difficult for me, as i already am very indecisive. so here is a list of what i NEED not WANT and im hoping you guys can give me a straight answer.

-durability
-reliability
-interchangeable chokes
-ability to mount a scope
-cheap but still durable and reliable
-easy access to parts/upgrades
-some what idiot proof field stripping/cleaning
-little to no work before shooting out of box

let me explain that last one, i was about to pull the trigger (poor pun completely intended ) on a 870, but again the hit or miss of remington QC as stopped me. I was reading up on some problems the newer produced 870 express was having, and people were reporting stiff actions, and poor ejections. In response to these problems, some have said that remington has been building the 870 express today the same way they did 20 years ago when everyone swore by them, but now they are not polishing the internals enough, so there needs to be a break in time. they also suggested you clean out the entire gun with some remoil, and that you would possibly need to take some 0000steel wool and some oil and polish the inside of the chamber? (dont really remember what, but they said it was obviously rough feeling). with this said I would not like to deal with that as i am a bit paranoid about not being able to return my stuff and lose my hard earned money, but if i know for sure some steel wool and oil is all it takes to get a 870 working like it did out of the box 20 years ago, i have no problem with that. but if there is no definite solution to a definite problem, i would rather have out of the box durability and reliability

Talk to aippi, he is the 870 wizard since he makes a living modding out rem 870. According to him, the 870 needs to have chamber polished and mim extractor replaced with along a few springs in the trigger group. The external finish needs to be kept oiled on the express, I hear they have a tendency to rust if left dry. Here is a link for a fluff and buff of a rem 870 clone.

http://ingunowners.com/forums/long_guns/187268-diy_hobby_gunsmithing_12ga_pump_shotgun_refinements_pic_heavy.html

[DavidR310]

Well I can say then forget the winchester 1300. You can find them used but aftermarket support is nill. I have a defender(the security model) and there is a very small aftermarket for it. Also they are discontinued, so again you have to buy used.

With the mossberg...I can say forget the 590A1, especially if you want it with a 28in accuchoke barrel. Which has me going back to the 500. Now I can say I like my Winchester 1300 defender over my Mossberg 500. However, the barrel changes on the 500 are super easy. I have the combo model your talking about with the 2 barrels. Model #50482. It is true the 28in barrel is a fixed choke. You can either sell the 28 fixed barrel and buy a new accuchoke barrel which is my plan. I want to use it for skeet/upland bird hunting. I got mine on sale for $269 at Big 5 but came in around $320 OTD. Or you can pay about $100 more for the field/security combo #54169 which comes with a 28in accuchoke barrel. I wish I did that.

As for Remingtons...never owned or even shot one, so no comment.

[dooodstevenn]

i had already gotten the rem. 887 but after reading about the constant problems i decided i would trade it in for something else, and then posted this. anyways, i did not want to lose my 25 fee for the background check so i just stuck to what they had in stock instead of doing a return and going else where, the only mossberg they had was a combo version with a fixed choke, my only other option was a stevens 350 pump or a 870 express, so i ended up getting the 870, and will go pick it up in 10 days, thanks for the help guys, i will report back when i get time to go to the range.

[mbt]

The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

I got a 870 clone that is stronger than the 870 express. Pumps/Shoots great and takes almost all 870 accessories other than barrels. Came with very accurate GRS all for $179.

After cleaning out the grease, it shot 100% reliable first time out.
Added +1 mag extention and Hogue fore grips and stock and it feels fantastic.

If u are hell bent on a name brand, then no one can help you. Because u will have to spend more money or get cheap unreliable junk.

[dooodstevenn]

The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

I got a 870 clone that is stronger than the 870 express. Pumps/Shoots great and takes almost all 870 accessories other than barrels. Came with very accurate GRS all for $179.

After cleaning out the grease, it shot 100% reliable first time out.
Added +1 mag extention and Hogue fore grips and stock and it feels fantastic.

If u are hell bent on a name brand, then no one can help you. Because u will have to spend more money or get cheap unreliable junk.

thanks for the input, but how did you come to this conclusion that low end shotguns (remington 870/mossberg 500) are junk? i will admit the mossberg has some fit "issues" that are not really issues at all, i've seen people with them 10 years later still shooting like it was new, and same with the remington but people actually say their action gets smoother as time passes. If remington and mossberg were truely making inferrior over priced products, i don't see why these shot guns have lasted in the market for so long with millions of users who swear by them

[ElvenSoul]

I just saw a 20g single shot selling for $40 in a Pawn Shop in Brea, CA.

[runway1]

The "economical" Mossbergs and Remingtons are junk LITERALLY. Weak MIM parts. Plastic parts. Unreliable. And not exactly cheap ($350+). You will regret it.

Get a IAC shotgun. Strong steel parts. Very affordable ($170-250).

..... cheap unreliable junk.

That's the biggest piece of poppycock I've heard in a long time. I'd go so far as to it - balderdash.

Granted they're not exactly Perazzis or Krieghoffs but if you want to buy an overseas copy for ...really, $179?? and claim it's better than a proven 870 or 500, well....enjoy that Chin-Pillipine gun you have.

[dooodstevenn]

so i finally got the 870 today after my 10 day waiting period. I have not taken it to the range yet (i probably will this weekend). I have racked through some snap caps, and noticed that you really have to rack the shotgun hard. If not you get some problems, like stove pipes.

my first 5 rounds i racked through, i got a stove pipe, then a jam, then a double feed.

loaded up some more, never got a jam again, or double feed, but some stove pipes.

started racking it hard, and it now cycles flawlessly. I will report back with real ammo this weekend.



extra thoughts:

the slide on my friend's mossberg 500 is alot smoother than mine, but im sure my remington will smoothen out with use

pushing against the elevator ramp to reload is a little annoying, i do enjoy reloading the mossberg, i just flip it over, using my weak hand i drop shells onto the bottom of the reciever and push it in with my thumb, nice and simple.


the remington is quite a bit heavier than the mossberg, but it does indeed feel more solid than the 500

[DavidR310]

With all guns, especially shotguns, the extra weight usually helps reducing the felt recoil.

Looking forward to your review, happy shooting!

David.

[Lugiahua]

Hunting what? Upland dove/chucker .....geese....turkey...pig? A scope on a shotgun has very limited use. Do you want a HD gun? With that, you'll have a 16"/18" barrell - which is almost useless for ducks/geese/pigs.

So, I would say you first determine your primary goal. A HD gun or a pig gun with scope?

wouldn't a slug from 20in work well against pigs?

[WDE91]

This thread makes my head hurt
good lord

[smittty]

This seems like you want the 500. Are you sure you made the right choice? Just kidding!

I would have suggested also looking at the Winchester sxp.

so i finally got the 870 today after my 10 day waiting period. I have not taken it to the range yet (i probably will this weekend). I have racked through some snap caps, and noticed that you really have to rack the shotgun hard. If not you get some problems, like stove pipes.

my first 5 rounds i racked through, i got a stove pipe, then a jam, then a double feed.

loaded up some more, nevTer got a jam again, or double feed, but some stove pipes.

started racking it hard, and it now cycles flawlessly. I will report back with real ammo this weekend.



extra thoughts:

the slide on my friend's mossberg 500 is alot smoother than mine, but im sure my remington will smoothen out with use

pushing against the elevator ramp to reload is a little annoying, i do enjoy reloading the mossberg, i just flip it over, using my weak hand i drop shells onto the bottom of the reciever and push it in with my thumb, nice and simple.


the remington is quite a bit heavier than the mossberg, but it does indeed feel more solid than the 500

[The War Wagon]

As a Mossberg 500 owner, I'd say, get the 590. Better built, and yet 500 aftermarket stuff ALSO fits it.