AOW Shotgun

[hermosabeach]

I can't recall the name but there is or was an AOW advertising and posting on cal guns.

[hermosabeach]

I believe these are the AOW dealer


EBR Works
Vendor/Retailer

[itsmedude]

I was able to pick up the host firearm now just need to find a shop to do the conversation.

Too bad Safety Harbor is no longer doing KEG12's any more.

form 1 approved already?

[Wnick308]

form 1 approved already?

Just sent off the form, I'll up date when I get it back.

[Wnick308]

Form 1 was denied today as they say it is a short barreled shotgun in California.

[waygeekierthanu]

Form 1 was denied today as they say it is a short barreled shotgun in California.

Crappy, we do offer an AOW service for 300 bucks, we can get this in your name as an AOW for sure!

[Quiet]

Form 1 was denied today as they say it is a short barreled shotgun in California.

BATFE approved AOW is exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws. [PC 17710(a)]




Penal Code 17710
(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and that is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items under Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

[Wnick308]

BATFE approved AOW is exempt from CA SBR/SBS laws. [PC 17710(a)]




Penal Code 17710
(a) The provisions listed in Section 16590 do not apply to any firearm or ammunition that is a curio or relic as defined in Section 478.11 of Title 27 of the Code of Federal Regulations and that is in the possession of a person permitted to possess the items under Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.

Thank you for this!, I am looking at how to ask ATF to review this information.

[Capybara]

I'm submitting a Form 1 this week and I live in California. I already have a Remington 870-based 12" AOW that I bought years ago from EBR Works when they were in California. Next up will be turning my AR pistol into an AOW to have better protection for a braced pistol.
This video has been immensely helpful in how to actually fill out the eform. You can't watch it here but click on the Watch on YouTube and it works fine. If you want to make your own pistol grip shotgun AOW, pretty easy, buy a PGO only shotgun, fill out a Form 1 and
once ATF issues your stamp, have the barrel sawed off. This won't help if you want a Serbu Shorty or Safety Harbor KEG type AOW but if you want what I have, a 12" barrel or shorter 870 or 500 pump, you can turn a Remington or a Mossberg into one pretty easily.

I'll report back how it goes, have get fingerprints for an EFT and passport photos this week for the eform submission.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WBq2a5RWMAg

[Wnick308]

I filled out the form just fine but the ATF said AOW's are not allowed in California.

[Capybara]

I filled out the form just fine but the ATF said AOW's are not allowed in California.

Which is demonstrably not true. If they deny my application, I will be seeking counsel considering I already have a California legal AOW sitting in my safe and have the tax stamp and have had it for over a decade.
You may have also messed up your eform somehow or maybe you just got an ATF account investigator who actually doesn't know the law? Anythings possible as far as why they are actually saying that, but I wouldn't just accept that.
There are thousands of individual form 1 and form 4 holders in the state of California is what I've read from multiple sources.

There are certain types of AOWs not permitted in California, pen and cane guns, briefcase guns and a few others that I recall when I was researching all of this a decade ago when I got my first AOW. But smooth bore shotgun weapons and vertical foregrip AR pistols definitely are permitted as long as
they don't run afoul of our AW laws.

If you can redact your personal information, it would be very helpful if you post either the email or form letter they sent you. Exactly what kind of weapon were you trying to register? Form 1 or 4?

Very few people also know that C&R registered (you may not convert) SBS and SBRs ARE allowed in California. The challenge is the weapon must be C&R, which generally means at least 50 years old unless it's on the ATF list of registered C&R guns, and the weapon must be NFA papered, it cannot be converted to NFA registered now because that is supposedly like creating a new weapon, which negates the C&R status. Think about the timeline. 50 years ago in the 70s, $200 to register an SBS or SBR was a lot of money so very few were ever papered. So very few exist. So finding one to actually buy is incredibly challenging. I found some LEO SBS that I wanted to buy a few years ago but they were beaters that had seen better days, they were NFA registered but the seller wanted like $2,500 for a beat up shotgun that if it wasn't short barreled would be worth $200 tops.

But keep your eyes peeled, you never know what could hit the market at any time. But papered C&R SBS and SBRs are exceedingly rare animals. It would be cool to legally have a short barreled Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 here though. So once again, there are ways to legally own NFA items in California.

[Capybara]

Update 041025.
I got my EFT Finger prints at a local UPS store via a website service called PrintScan. It's interesting, you book and pay for it online, it's a self serve kiosk within the store, you go in, the store worker verifies your IDs, I used my passport and my CDL, then you scan the QR code that PrintScan sends you and it takes you into their fingerprint system at the kiosk. Doing the prints was easy, other than the roll prints were a PITA, as the pad's sensitivity seemed to be dialed in to low sensitivity so I had to really smash my fingers into the pad to get them to read. Once you are done, PrintScan emails you the EFT file which you upload to the ATF while you fill out the Eform 1. Passport photo is self explanatory and UPS stores can take your passport photo so killed two birds with one stone there. If you are not computer literate, keep in mind that the passport photo that FedEx or UPS takes of you will not be the right size and DPI for what the ATF submission requires so I had to take the image into Apple Preview or you could use Photoshop and reduce it to 720x720 and increase its resolution to 600DPI. The file size must be 3MB or smaller.

Utilizing the National Gun Trust video walk through I posted above, it took about a half hour to actually go through and fill out all of the pages and submit. One caveat if you decide to do this, file an Eform 1, the cover sheet that the ATF sends you afterwards, it says right up at the top that you have to send your Fingerprint cards to them within 10 business days. BUT, if you look below on the cover sheet, assuming that the website took and could read your EFT file ok, you will see boxes that have your name and then over on the right side in another box, it will say, "REC'D". As long as you see this, no need to mail them physical fingerprint cards. It's confusing because it appears that you HAVE to mail them cards and it was never explicitly stated that they received your EFT file and that you DON'T have to get physical fingerprint cards and mail them in. It took me a little research to see that the "REC'D" is verification of receipt of your EFT fingerprints.

I mailed the three CLEO pages in the submitted application to my CLEO. Now the wait begins. The lower for my AR pistol model wasn't in their listed list for the manufacturer so I had to manually enter it which, according to them, will make getting approval take longer because they have to research the model to verify that it exists. You include a photo of the firearm engraved markings so hopefully whoever audits this application will see clearly that the receiver does exist, it's probably an older variant that the manufacturer no longer makes.

I will report back on any new developments and whether they deny or approve my application.

[Wnick308]

Which is demonstrably not true. If they deny my application, I will be seeking counsel considering I already have a California legal AOW sitting in my safe and have the tax stamp and have had it for over a decade.
You may have also messed up your eform somehow or maybe you just got an ATF account investigator who actually doesn't know the law? Anythings possible as far as why they are actually saying that, but I wouldn't just accept that.
There are thousands of individual form 1 and form 4 holders in the state of California is what I've read from multiple sources.

There are certain types of AOWs not permitted in California, pen and cane guns, briefcase guns and a few others that I recall when I was researching all of this a decade ago when I got my first AOW. But smooth bore shotgun weapons and vertical foregrip AR pistols definitely are permitted as long as
they don't run afoul of our AW laws.

If you can redact your personal information, it would be very helpful if you post either the email or form letter they sent you. Exactly what kind of weapon were you trying to register? Form 1 or 4?

Very few people also know that C&R registered (you may not convert) SBS and SBRs ARE allowed in California. The challenge is the weapon must be C&R, which generally means at least 50 years old unless it's on the ATF list of registered C&R guns, and the weapon must be NFA papered, it cannot be converted to NFA registered now because that is supposedly like creating a new weapon, which negates the C&R status. Think about the timeline. 50 years ago in the 70s, $200 to register an SBS or SBR was a lot of money so very few were ever papered. So very few exist. So finding one to actually buy is incredibly challenging. I found some LEO SBS that I wanted to buy a few years ago but they were beaters that had seen better days, they were NFA registered but the seller wanted like $2,500 for a beat up shotgun that if it wasn't short barreled would be worth $200 tops.

But keep your eyes peeled, you never know what could hit the market at any time. But papered C&R SBS and SBRs are exceedingly rare animals. It would be cool to legally have a short barreled Remington 870 or Mossberg 500 here though. So once again, there are ways to legally own NFA items in California.

Any update to your form getting approved?

Here is mine that was denied.

Denied-Form-001.jpg
Denied-Form-002.jpg

[Capybara]

Any update to your form getting approved?

Here is mine that was denied.

Denied-Form-001.jpg
Denied-Form-002.jpg

I'll take a look at your form later in the week but so far, have not heard a peep. Unfortunately my AR Pistol lower wasn't listed in their database so they have to "research" it, which they say can take up to four to six months. Thank for posting this, I'll check it out, just buried with work tomorrow and Wednesday.

Be well!

[Capybara]

I don't see anything on your application that should have led to it being denied. It appears that you ended up with an uninformed examiner who doesn't know the laws in California. Unfortunately you probably cannot have a conversation on the phone or even via email with the examiner but they are citing PC 16590 and section PEN 33215 as cited below but they are ignorant of PC 17710 Section A which you can view here that supersedes both of those. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...ctionNum=17710

"Penal Code - PEN


PART 6. CONTROL OF DEADLY WEAPONS [16000 - 34400]

( Part 6 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
TITLE 4. FIREARMS [23500 - 34400]

( Title 4 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
DIVISION 10. SPECIAL RULES RELATING TO PARTICULAR TYPES OF FIREARMS OR FIREARM EQUIPMENT [30210 - 33690]

( Division 10 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
CHAPTER 8. Short-Barreled Rifle or Short-Barreled Shotgun [33210 - 33320]

( Chapter 8 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )
ARTICLE 1. Restrictions Relating to Short-Barreled Rifle or Short-Barreled Shotgun [33210 - 33290]

( Article 1 added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. )

33215.

Except as provided in Sections 33220 and 33225 and in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section 17700) of Division 2 of Title 2, any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170.
(Amended by Stats. 2012, Ch. 43, Sec. 109. (SB 1023) Effective June 27, 2012.)"