KSG?? 13mo deposit. Wtf

[1 SIG fan]

Anyone have a KSG update. I ordered at turners 13 months ago...

Thanks!!

[AragornElessar86]

Haha, good luck. I ordered at Turners in early Feb of 2011 and they won't even answer my PMs about it now. If you get any news let me know. Maybe if we all called Kel-Tec direct something would get done.

[Mesa Tactical]

Honest question: what's the point of putting down a deposit on a product that isn't even available yet?

We get guys asking to do this all the time and it doesn't make any sense to me.


BTW: The KSGs are definitely trickling out. We announced a shell carrier for the KSG at the SHOT Show (it's not shipping yet) and the phone calls are starting to come in.

[1 SIG fan]

Reason for deposit: 13mo ago they said "1-2 months and were only getting 200 of the first run." So, deposit saves my unit in the first run. Often with open back orders a 2nd run cn add a loner wait of their capacities can't match their demand. However... That "next month" was moved 5 times. Last I heard was march... And now were halfway through April. I tried calling keltec. In hold forever and their music in hold said it was shipping last year...

Mesa: I'm a mfg too (not fun related). And we get more calls for stuff pre release. Then one "it" is finally released sales are slow on that accessory. Lots of tire kickers like to plan their build but never to the speed or frequency of their phone calls. It's funny....


Lastly, turners ISN'T direct. They buy through distribution and I wonder if their dist is yanking em around. Turners pre sold at the lower cost and maybe the dist is filling higher margin orders first. Just a guess??

[AragornElessar86]

Reason for deposit: 13mo ago they said "1-2 months and were only getting 200 of the first run." So, deposit saves my unit in the first run. Often with open back orders a 2nd run cn add a loner wait of their capacities can't match their demand. However... That "next month" was moved 5 times. Last I heard was march... And now were halfway through April. I tried calling keltec. In hold forever and their music in hold said it was shipping last year...

Mesa: I'm a mfg too (not fun related). And we get more calls for stuff pre release. Then one "it" is finally released sales are slow on that accessory. Lots of tire kickers like to plan their build but never to the speed or frequency of their phone calls. It's funny....


Lastly, turners ISN'T direct. They buy through distribution and I wonder if their dist is yanking em around. Turners pre sold at the lower cost and maybe the dist is filling higher margin orders first. Just a guess??

Ya, ordinarily I'd be fairly understanding of Turners situation, but so many other retailers are getting them that I think turners just doesn't care enough about their pre-order customers to put the requisite pressure on their distributors. I'm a heartbeat away from having that money put toward a couple other guns I've been eyeing for a while now. With a different retailer for sure.

[1 SIG fan]

^^. Is that confirmed. I though no one was getting em??

[Rhythm of Life]

Honest question: what's the point of putting down a deposit on a product that isn't even available yet?

So you make sure you get said product..... how are you even in business? Are you that blind to the obvious?

Glad my Shotgun stayed wood instead of your plastic product.

[Mesa Tactical]

So you make sure you get said product..... how are you even in business? Are you that blind to the obvious?

How am I in business even though we've never accepted a deposit on a product that is not shipping? That's a good question. I could provide a very long and boring answer or maybe you could think about it a bit and figure it out yourself. I will note we accept pre-orders for new and backordered products all the time, but never deposits.

Apparently, folks who put down a deposit on a product that is not shipping must either want very badly to be the first on the block to get one (as mentioned above, what I call the iPod Effect; not something I understand, but I guess it's pretty common); or, like you, they believe the manufacturer only intends to do a short run and so want to get their hands on the item while it's still available.

Any business that runs according to the latter model, making a certain number of products and then discontinuing the line after all the deposits have been cashed in, will not be around for very long. I elaborated on this at some length here.

What business model do you employ?

[Rhythm of Life]

How am I in business even though we've never accepted a deposit on a product that is not shipping? That's a good question. I could provide a very long and boring answer or maybe you could think about it a bit and figure it out yourself. I will note we accept pre-orders for new and backordered products all the time, but never deposits.

Apparently, folks who put down a deposit on a product that is not shipping must either want very badly to be the first on the block to get one (as mentioned above, what I call the iPod Effect; not something I understand, but I guess it's pretty common); or, like you, they believe the manufacturer only intends to do a short run and so want to get their hands on the item while it's still available.

Any business that runs according to the latter model, making a certain number of products and then discontinuing the line after all the deposits have been cashed in, will not be around for very long. I elaborated on this at some length here.

What business model do you employ?

First off I don't buy "tactical" toys.

Secondly I don't buy before an object is available.

Third my point was if you don't understand the market like your previous post showed, how the **** do you stay in business?

"what's the point of putting down a deposit on a product that isn't even available yet?"

This is what you said. As a business owner how do you not understand this ****? Oh wait.... you do, and you stated that in your reply to my post..... wtf?

And as for your link:

I don't know much about this guy and for all I know his product might be the best thing since sliced bread.

If you don't know **** why act like you do?

[Maddog5150]

As far as Turners goes, they are at the mercy of the reps and distributers. Turners is told one thing from either direct or middle man and then thats what they have to go on to give the information to the customer. Usually the "2 week" response is pretty common. Remember thought that most manufactures are really really slow on getting new guns out and especially kel-tec. They have to be one of the worst at it.
Turners will make it right however in either case of rolling over your deposit for something you can get sooner, or refund. The other option is just waiting for kel tec to make guns which may take a while

[al8550]

[Mesa Tactical]

Third my point was if you don't understand the market like your previous post showed, how the **** do you stay in business?

It's a paradox. Since I have been moderately successful in business for some years, and yet you seem to think I know nothing about my market, one of us must be wrong.

Which of us do you suppose it is?

If you don't know **** why act like you do?

I know about the correct and ethical way to conduct a business; I know next to nothing about Bjorn and his product. I didn't think that was so confusing. Was it really?



You other guys need to think about what a deposit accomplishes. I have put down deposits a number of times in the past, generally to hold an item until I can return later with the balance of the price (do this a lot when buying used cars from private parties). I've put down deposits on guns, usually so that I can make sure they will still be available for me in thirty days when I can buy a second handgun.

But handing over a deposit for something the seller doesn't have, that just puts your name on a list and enriches the seller prematurely. It shouldn't require a payment to put your name on a list. Turners are of course a completely legitimate business, and that they accept deposits in this manner simply reflects how widespread a practice it is (or, more likely, they aren't making any distinction between accepting deposits on items they have or can get quickly (and for which they accept deposits every day) and items they don't have and can't get). When you think about it, it doesn't seem ethical to accept money for performance of a service you are not capable of executing.

I am almost certain Keltec themselves have not accepted deposits, but can't be sure. It seems almost suicidal for a manufacturer to do that; and with interest rates what they are now, it's unnecessary. Production delays always occur, it always takes longer than you expect to bring a product to market. It's bad enough, when the ship dates slip, dealing with the frustrated customers who have done nothing more than put their names on a list; it would be hellish having to placate folks who have actually paid good money to get on that list. I think that's why Bjorn at Kushnapup has been losing his cool lately.

Anyway, I've mentioned this a couple times now because I see it a lot in this industry and it often leads to so much unnecessary wailing and gnashing of teeth. Folks need to resist the urge (and the entreaties) to put down deposits on futureware. Eventually, there will be KSGs behind the counter at Turners and other gun stores, and you'll be able to buy as many as you want with no pre-order, no deposit, nothing except a ten-day wait.

[alfred1222]

First off I don't buy "tactical" toys.

Secondly I don't buy before an object is available.

Third my point was if you don't understand the market like your previous post showed, how the **** do you stay in business?

"what's the point of putting down a deposit on a product that isn't even available yet?"

This is what you said. As a business owner how do you not understand this ****? Oh wait.... you do, and you stated that in your reply to my post..... wtf?

And as for your link:



If you don't know **** why act like you do?

I think I hear the ban hammer swinging

[scoobyj]

[G-Solutions]

Mesa.

YOu've pointed out a couple of good points. I can't relate to those who need the latest gear the moment it comes out. I haven't followed Kel-Tec's products very closely in the past but IIRC several of them had a number of problems when they first hit the market. Several people from our instructor group saw the KSG at SHOT and were not too enthused about it. It's an interesting basic idea, but I will only look closer into it after it has been on the market (in ready supply) for at least a year.

That said, the deposit that Turner's took sounds fishy. It might be a good idea to talk to the store manager and check if he can transfer the deposit to another gun of your choice.

You may also want to start a new thread in their Sub-Forum and/or contact Rob Zubak (look up forum member robz@turners) directly. Sad as it is with Turner's, sometimes it seems that the more potential problems one creates by posting experiences like the OP's the more likely that problem is to receive attention.