are these the Non-Lethal rubber bullets you hear about?

[Squid]

http://www.jgsales.com/s-b-12ga-rubber-ball,-2-2-3in,-2-spherical-balls.-25rd-box-p-4342.html

[5539]

Do yourself a big favor and do a topic search on this form.

Check California Laws.

If you can't buy it over the counter in California, it's probably illegal to use and includes possession as well.

[cgates]

+1 on the above post...



there are many different forms of "rubber bullets"

these would be but one form.

[nick]

Do yourself a big favor and do a topic search on this form.

Check California Laws.

If you can't buy it over the counter in California, it's probably illegal to use and includes possession as well.

Say what? Do you have a PC citation to go with it?

As for the second part of your message, I've been having the hardest time to find an AMD-65 pistol over the counter in CA. It must be illegal...

[BigDogatPlay]

A firearm is different than ammo. The only ammo I am aware of specifically outlawed in the Penal Code is tracer, incendiary,, armor piercing or any combination of the three. Rubber buckshot is not illegal in California.

That said, less lethal rounds like rubber buck shot have no legitimate use outside of .mil or LE applications.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

[fighterpilot562]

A firearm is different than ammo. The only ammo I am aware of specifically outlawed in the Penal Code is tracer, incendiary,, armor piercing or any combination of the three. Rubber buckshot is not illegal in California.

That said, less lethal rounds like rubber buck shot have no legitimate use outside of .mil or LE applications.

Just my opinion. YMMV.

this^ i think u r correct

[TaoFlederMaus]

I've loaded up shells with airsoft bb's and they can be pretty nasty at close range. They spread like crazy but would probably be classified as a less than lethal round. They'd probably kill if shot someone in the face. Even light little plastic bb's have a lot of energy travelling over 1200 fps.

[nick]

By AP ammo being illegal you mean handgun AP ammo being illegal, right?

[Mateba]

Not to thread hijack, but wouldn't the use of less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation be illegal? Isn't the use of a firearm the use of deadly force and using less lethal ammunition puts one in a gray area doesn't it?

Id think you'd open yourself up to prosecution if you used less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation.

I don't know, I'm just asking.

[Ribkick]

Not to thread hijack, but wouldn't the use of less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation be illegal? Isn't the use of a firearm the use of deadly force and using less lethal ammunition puts one in a gray area doesn't it?

Id think you'd open yourself up to prosecution if you used less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation.

I don't know, I'm just asking.

Using it is NOT illegal. BUT you are correct, it can leave you open to litigation. Either criminal, or civil, or both.

[JohnFLand]

Not to thread hijack, but wouldn't the use of less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation be illegal? Isn't the use of a firearm the use of deadly force and using less lethal ammunition puts one in a gray area doesn't it?

Id think you'd open yourself up to prosecution if you used less lethal ammunition in a self defense situation.

I don't know, I'm just asking.

The right to self defense is not a binary matter (i.e., use no force or use lethal force). You may legally use the level of force reasonable necessary under the circumstances. So you can't normally shoot a 5 year old threatening you with a pen knife -- although I can imagine a scenario where you could (but it's a stretch).

[BigDogatPlay]

The right to self defense is not a binary matter (i.e., use no force or use lethal force). You may legally use the level of force reasonable necessary under the circumstances.

Correct in that no one should ever use more force than is reasonably necessary to stop the threat. However, less lethal is considered to be the same as lethal force. It can be lethal but it is just less likely to be lethal. To use less lethal within the law, regardless of whether you are a LEO or not, you have to be in a situation that would warrant the use of lethal force, end of story. There is no intermediate level accorded less lethal. If lethal force was not justified, then use of less lethal could create a serious problem.

Bear in mind that when LE deploys less lethal, like the rubber buck shot mentioned in the OP, it is done with lethal force immediately behind it in the hands of another officer(s) ready to go if the less lethal doesn't stop the situation. And less lethal is deployed by LE within the scope of their duty to make arrests, all of us who are not LE have no such duty.

Logically for the private citizen confronted by a situation where lethal force is warranted, and without benefit of backup standing behind, it is a much sounder path to deploy lethal force to stop the threat as opposed to mucking around with less lethal and risk it not working.

[Shotgun Willie]

The right to self defense is not a binary matter (i.e., use no force or use lethal force). You may legally use the level of force reasonable necessary under the circumstances. So you can't normally shoot a 5 year old threatening you with a pen knife -- although I can imagine a scenario where you could (but it's a stretch).

A five year old muzlim ninja who's gonna do a paper on it after.

[Moonshine]

Last time I was at river city gun exchange they had rubber less lethal shells. They said if you wanted to go less lethal pepper spray is probably better... The rubbe shot would likely own someone at the ranges it would be used in home defense and it's illegal and unadvisable to use a shotgun on your porch so the only time you'd really get a chance to use this would be if you were law enforcement or if you for some reason kept them with a trunk gun like a mossberg persuader

[Quiet]

Less lethal (rubber buckshot/bullets, bean bags, etc) ammo is legal in CA.

However...
Discharging a firearm at another person is deadly force.
It does not matter what type of ammo is being fired, the same standard is used to determine if it's a justified use of deadly force.