Keltec KSG - Combat Reload

[DavidR310]

After watching several videos of the KSG, I am thinking that a proven/reliable pump/semi-auto would outgun a KSG if you would have to combat reload.

I just can't see an efficient combat reload being done on a KSG.

Thoughts?

side note: anyone have a vid of a KSG combat reload?

[JaMail]

are you talking for competition reasons? timed combat reload stage perhaps? or real world situation?

Real world situation, i think your already ahead of the game, your hitting 14 shots.. after the first 8 on a regular pump, your talking combate reloads for each round, while the KSG has another 6 shots. at which point the KSG is going to take longer to reload.

[Merc1138]

are you talking for competition reasons? timed combat reload stage perhaps? or real world situation?

Real world situation, i think your already ahead of the game, your hitting 14 shots.. after the first 8 on a regular pump, your talking combate reloads for each round, while the KSG has another 6 shots. at which point the KSG is going to take longer to reload.

Exactly. The whole point is to start with more rounds to begin with, and with the time it would take to fill the magazine tube in another shotgun flip a switch and there's another full magazine for you. Nutnfancy did about the dumbest thing he could do in his video of the KSG and refused to load it any more than 5+4, yet I don't think he runs magazines for anything else 2/3 full.

[TheExpertish]

If bullpups were a competition winning design the Mossberg 500 pup eould be all over the scene. I like bullpups personally but a regular 870 is my style.

[JaMail]

You could say the The KSG combat reload is to flip the switch and shoot 7 more times.

[DavidR310]

Real world situation thoughts:

Always keep your eyes on the threat. Keep shooting until they are no longer a threat.

Now;

I think a regular shotgun would prevail. Having the ability to quickly change out 00 buck to slugs to less than lethal and be able to quickly adapt to a situation is a plus in the normal shotgun configuration.

An extra 7 rounds already is for sure an advantage, but in a firefight that lasts even just a couple of minutes, hundreds of rounds are exchanged. A person can empty a 10 round magazine in a blink of an eye or 7 rounds of 00buck in under 3 seconds. You have to keep shooting at the threat until no longer a threat.

Then when coming to a speed reload, what is going to happen? Would you have to tilt the shotgun forward with the barrel towards the ground? This way, you would see what tube you are loading into, to keep from loading into the incorrect tube with the selector switch on. This would not be good, because in a threat situation, you would always want your barrel and your eyes pointed toward the threat.

Also in videos, when you pump the action, if your finger is not in the right place you could jam or break your trigger finger. I could see an average joe waking up in the middle of the night to hearing a bad guy break in. He racks the pump because he thinks the noise is going to scare off the bad guy and because he is a little overzealous in practicing gun safety and his trigger finger is place too high, he breaks his trigger finger.

Another outdoor real world situation is the ammo indicator marks on the tubes. All you need is a good size obstruction (dirt, pebble, etc.) to go in the tube and I can see the jamming of a shell in the tube, resulting in a loss of the ability to load/use the tube.

Keltec needs to put a good amount of money into the training side with the KSG and hopefully not just sell them off the novelty of the item.

[zfields]

Or just keep one tube of buck, one of slug.

There is no way I would ever mix less then lethal into a shotgun that is not clearly marked for it.

[Sturnovik]

If bullpups were a competition winning design the Mossberg 500 pup eould be all over the scene. I like bullpups personally but a regular 870 is my style.

Agreed, my 870 was a LEO trade in, love it to death. Always works and is beat up to hell and back, but who cares, its a shotgun.

I love bullpups but I always figured they made better rifles than shotguns. The layout of the KSG aint my thing.

[JohnFLand]

"An extra 7 rounds already is for sure an advantage, but in a firefight that lasts even just a couple of minutes, hundreds of rounds are exchanged.... "

Not without machine guns or a LOT of shooters. Take a look at the 1986 FBI shootout -- 5 mins., 9 shooters, about 145 rds total.

[Merc1138]

Real world situation thoughts:

Always keep your eyes on the threat. Keep shooting until they are no longer a threat.

Now;

I think a regular shotgun would prevail. Having the ability to quickly change out 00 buck to slugs to less than lethal and be able to quickly adapt to a situation is a plus in the normal shotgun configuration.

An extra 7 rounds already is for sure an advantage, but in a firefight that lasts even just a couple of minutes, hundreds of rounds are exchanged. A person can empty a 10 round magazine in a blink of an eye or 7 rounds of 00buck in under 3 seconds. You have to keep shooting at the threat until no longer a threat.

What combat situation has ever called for hundreds of rounds out of a single shotgun? If you can't handle something with 15 rounds of 00 buck, you need to grab a different weapon.

Also, if I'm in such a situation where I'd have to keep manually loading dozens of rounds into a shotgun, why in the world would I possibly want to load less lethal ammo?

Also, with the BS that happens when people grab something besides a tazer on "accident"(not looking to debate that BART incident here), or mange to kill someone with less lethal ammo, why would I want to rely on a switch?

You've described a scenario so unrealistic, that I can't even think of any movies/tv shows from hollywood that would do that.

[TAC-1]

KSG on Police Magazine:

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Weapons/Articles/2011/11/Kel-Tec-KSG-Shotgun.aspx

[BigDogatPlay]

Or just keep one tube of buck, one of slug.

There is no way I would ever mix less then lethal into a shotgun that is not clearly marked for it.

+1. Add to that the notion that there is really not much reason for non-leo to be loading / shooting less lethal rounds in a fight. It's still potentially lethal force, just somewhat less so, and all the same rules apply. LEO have a different level of responsibility and lethal force use and the less lethal ammo fits into that envelope.

KSG on Police Magazine:

http://www.policemag.com/Channel/Wea...G-Shotgun.aspx

Same link in three different KSG threads. So do you work for Kel-Tec or are you just hanging out in gun forums pimping what still isn't in production or on FFL shelves for sale?

[Webologist]

Real world situation thoughts:

Always keep your eyes on the threat. Keep shooting until they are no longer a threat.

Now;

I think a regular shotgun would prevail. Having the ability to quickly change out 00 buck to slugs to less than lethal and be able to quickly adapt to a situation is a plus in the normal shotgun configuration.

An extra 7 rounds already is for sure an advantage, but in a firefight that lasts even just a couple of minutes, hundreds of rounds are exchanged. A person can empty a 10 round magazine in a blink of an eye or 7 rounds of 00buck in under 3 seconds. You have to keep shooting at the threat until no longer a threat.

Then when coming to a speed reload, what is going to happen? Would you have to tilt the shotgun forward with the barrel towards the ground? This way, you would see what tube you are loading into, to keep from loading into the incorrect tube with the selector switch on. This would not be good, because in a threat situation, you would always want your barrel and your eyes pointed toward the threat.

Also in videos, when you pump the action, if your finger is not in the right place you could jam or break your trigger finger. I could see an average joe waking up in the middle of the night to hearing a bad guy break in. He racks the pump because he thinks the noise is going to scare off the bad guy and because he is a little overzealous in practicing gun safety and his trigger finger is place too high, he breaks his trigger finger.

Another outdoor real world situation is the ammo indicator marks on the tubes. All you need is a good size obstruction (dirt, pebble, etc.) to go in the tube and I can see the jamming of a shell in the tube, resulting in a loss of the ability to load/use the tube.

Keltec needs to put a good amount of money into the training side with the KSG and hopefully not just sell them off the novelty of the item.

Wow, I hope I never get in a real world gunfight. My ammo cabinets are full, but I'm not sure I can muster the hundreds of rounds of 00 Buck and slugs that would likely be needed. I probably also need to find some better way to carry the 30 pounds of ammo I might need.

[prc77]

Wow, I hope I never get in a real world gunfight. My ammo cabinets are full, but I'm not sure I can muster the hundreds of rounds of 00 Buck and slugs that would likely be needed. I probably also need to find some better way to carry the 30 pounds of ammo I might need.

The better way.

[Webologist]

sweet! And to think I was naive enough to think I was adequately prepared to counter a threat in my house with 7 in the gun and 5 in a sidesaddle.