PUMP...VS...SEME AUTO???

[AJAX22]

The only autoloading shotgun I trust well enough for home defense is the Remmington model 11.

Its not gas operated, it's recoil operated. and it just plain works. Its a JMB design and I've never had a jam, missfire, FTF, FTE, or stovepipe with any of mine.

for HD I prefer my 870 wingmaster pump, It holds plenty of ammo and its a nice compact package with the factory LEO folding stock and MK1 front end. It wasn't cheap, but I figure my life is worth at least the $1000 I have invested into it. although I also have a ithica 37 which stays loaded in a seperate closet just in case I happen to be closer to that door when I need a gun.

[Rugerman]

This topic hads been beat to death

In other words

[82A1CAL]

Got a M3 and never like it in pump! It is not exactly a pump. At times the forarm will slide back and forth but action doesn't move. Didn't border to figure what I did wrong so i just keep it in semi, just like a m2! I wanted a M3 because that is the closest thing to a Franchi Spas.

Offhand I'd say I haven't disagreed with any of Randall's posts. But this one he's misguided. The M3 is a nightmare of a shotgun. It's heavy confused and was built by commitee. It's good quality just a worthless design.

I'll be willing to change my mind if somebody has a good explantion.

[ar15barrels]

The only autoloading shotgun I trust well enough for home defense is the Remmington model 11.

Its not gas operated, it's recoil operated. and it just plain works. Its a JMB design and I've never had a jam, missfire, FTF, FTE, or stovepipe with any of mine.

Benelli's are recoil operated as well, except maybe the M4.

[AJAX22]

Benelli's are recoil operated as well, except maybe the M4.

Yeah, but JMB designed the remmy 11...

[Paradiddle]

I find this argument somewhat silly. Why does everyone assume modern semi auto shotguns are any less reliable then a pump shotgun?

Is your home defense handgun a single action Colt or even a double action revolver? Probably not - it's probably a tupperwear pistol or a Sig. Do you consider it unreliable? Aren't you worried you wont be able to handle clearing a jam when your panties are wadded up during combat?

How about your AR build, or your SKS - is that unreliable? Do you grab your lever action rifle out of the safe when the zombies come, or your decked out uber tacticool black rifle?

Both styles of shotguns work great. Both require practice. Frankly I think during stress a pump is harder to deal with then a semi. If you short stroke a pump you've now got to find the bolt release AND pump it again, if a semi fails to fire, you rack the bolt again. I shot both in a competition (neither was mine) and the semi is faster and easier to keep on target IMO. Just so I don't hear any nonsense, the semi was a Benelli and the pump was a real 870 Wingmaster (not an Express) from the 60's that Vang had gone through and decked out.

Use either one - I currently own two shotguns and neither is a semi - why? Simply because I can't drop $1400 into a good semi shotgun. Can I deal with my pumps - sure, but I've had nothing but pump shotguns so I'm somewhat used to them.

Jeff

[aplinker]

For me I already know the answer for regular stuff - I have a Benelli M4.

I should probably clean it, too... It's only FTF'd a couple time with bird shot light loads and some cheap "low velocity" 00 buck. Never with Win Rangers, standard 00's or any slugs (double-tapping big slugs at Angeles on the rifle area of the pistol range is fun).

The difference is, if I were out walking the fields for days on end, camping for months, etc. etc., I would much rather have a pump. I'd know there was nothing to worry about.

Anyone know any real .mil reliability reports on the M4?

I find this argument somewhat silly. Why does everyone assume modern semi auto shotguns are any less reliable then a pump shotgun?

Is your home defense handgun a single action Colt or even a double action revolver? Probably not - it's probably a tupperwear pistol or a Sig. Do you consider it unreliable? Aren't you worried you wont be able to handle clearing a jam when your panties are wadded up during combat?

How about your AR build, or your SKS - is that unreliable? Do you grab your lever action rifle out of the safe when the zombies come, or your decked out uber tacticool black rifle?

Both styles of shotguns work great. Both require practice. Frankly I think during stress a pump is harder to deal with then a semi. If you short stroke a pump you've now got to find the bolt release AND pump it again, if a semi fails to fire, you rack the bolt again. I shot both in a competition (neither was mine) and the semi is faster and easier to keep on target IMO. Just so I don't hear any nonsense, the semi was a Benelli and the pump was a real 870 Wingmaster (not an Express) from the 60's that Vang had gone through and decked out.

Use either one - I currently own two shotguns and neither is a semi - why? Simply because I can't drop $1400 into a good semi shotgun. Can I deal with my pumps - sure, but I've had nothing but pump shotguns so I'm somewhat used to them.

Jeff

[-hanko]

I find this argument somewhat silly. Why does everyone assume modern semi auto shotguns are any less reliable then a pump shotgun?

Jeff

Usually, far less experience with guns than time spent reading on the web

-hanko

[Paradiddle]

Usually, far less experience with guns than time spent reading on the web

-hanko

Too true.

[aplinker]

You think they're as reliable as pumps?

I see some problems with semi- shooters when shooting doubles, so I figure that's some indication. I actually don't own a semi- bird gun.

I don't like shooting doubles with a pump, though. It's why I like my double guns.

Usually, far less experience with guns than time spent reading on the web

-hanko

[randy]

I can only comment on my personel experiences. As a Kid I hunted with a Model 37 it wouldn't chamber reloads reliably. I put it away for a number of years and then started shooting sporting clays. It wouldn't reliably chamber the second shot some shots were left lying on the ground.
My 870's have always been reliable but not as easy to shoot as my Benelli's.

Now I shoot 3 gun and for the last few years I've shot 1 to 4 matches a month. My Benelli's don't fail me and get the least attention of all my firearms. I clean and oil my rifles regularly and clean and grease my pistols the same. My M1 gets wedged in the safe and pulled out for a practice session or the next match. I shoot 3 to 4 matches a year that really mean something to me I'll clean the gun then.

I see more semi's with problems than pumps BUT semi's out number pumps 20 to 1. I do see issues with the pumps some of which are the shooter and some are mechanical/ammo related. With the big difference in numbers between semi's and pump's the pumps have a higher percentage of failure than the semi's.