Auto 5: ISSUES, what do?! Mainly stock...

[Ergo the Qualmed]

Hello,

Now, I made a thread here not too long ago detailing the 1930 Auto 5 I got for rather cheap. When i bought it, it had a loose (not too bad mind you) stock.

Since then i've put ~175 low-brass #8 target loads through it. Works better than any shotgun I've ever used! BUT...the stock was always wobbly, and when I tightened the screw enough to make it un-wobbly, the set screw could not be screwed in.

Well, I took the stock off, and...two things. The action spring tube, which apparently was screwed into the tang/receiver for this model, is no longer attached. The threading is stripped--whether on the tube or the tang, i cannot tell.

ALSO, the wrist of the stock is bisected by a crack. Which only opens when the screw is tightened, hence it being some what wobbly. I mean, it never affected function or anything, and I don't notice it so much when shooting in the trap zone (mental zone, I mean). But I think it may be a...shall we say, problem.

Anyway, I took pictures of the crack, but forgot to take pictures of the spring tube. If it mattered.

SO MY QUESTION: it seems really rather difficult to find stocks for 1930's Belgian A5s. I hear that this one is different from most of the buttstocks one may find; all I know is that $195+ is a lot for a stock. Is there any way to repair this simply/satisfactorily? Or if I do need a buttstock, how do I know it is the right one?

http://e-sarcoinc.com/fnbrowninga5automaticshotgunstockfancygrade.aspx

http://e-sarcoinc.com/fnbrowninga5automaticshotgunstockmidgrade.aspx

http://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/browning-auto-5-buttstocks/B1111048

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/catalog/Detail.aspx?pid=467660&catid=5385

And I certainly hope I do not need to replace the action spring tube; it seems to work fine, even if it is separated from the receiver.
It was dead-reliable today, through 150+ shells.







Those were some pics of the crack.
To make myself feel better, I enclosed an awesome picture of where we shoot.



ANYWAY, thank you for your help!

[mikey357]

Im not sure if you can use acraglass to seal the crack, I would have to look at it.

http://www.brownells.com/.aspx/pid=1033/product/ACRAGLAS-reg-

[TRAP55]

Easy fix, if you know how.
You'll have to repair or replace the action spring tube or it will happen again. Check the forearm for cracks too, if you catch them early, you can fix it and prevent it from happening again too.

[Coyotegunner]

I do not know if BOYDS stocks has a 1930 model for sure.Call if you do not see it internet.Try Numrich Arms for the spring tube.I have had luck repairing a lot of old stocks like the other fellow suggested with Agraglass.The 2 part epoxies(Devcon)(Loctite) these days are pretty darn good as well.I usually reinforce cracks by cross drilling and installing a steel or brass pin.Drill the hole slightly oversize of the pin.Grind a few rough edges in the pin or pins,it helps hold the epoxy to the wood.

[Jeffy]

If you can spread the stock open without damaging it more, you can inject CA glue into there. You can get bottles of CA glue with long skinny tip extenders so you can get it into the crack. It would be a lot cleaner and invisible. It doesn't look wide enough to use wood glue.

[Ergo the Qualmed]

Alright, so it looks like glue (hipowered epoxy) for the stock, and (maybe) a brass rod or something to reinforce it?

The action spring tube is what it is bothering me; it used to screw into the tang (early model) but somewhere the threads are stripped, either tang or tube, and I don't know how to fix that...the newer ones were silver-soldiered in, apparently, so I don't know that I can even find the screw in ones anymore. Nevermind the possibility that the tang threads are what stripped, which would make a new threaded tube pointless...hmm...

I'm fairly certain this happened because the previous owner shot it with the wrong friction piece setup for the past 70yrs, so perhaps fixing the stock + lightish loads through proper ring setup = good enough w/o action tube fix?

[TRAP55]

More likely the tube threads are stripped. If it were mine, I would just silver solder it in. Finding a threaded replacement will be next to impossible.
The stock crack has to be de-greased.
Then clamped back together.
A recess dremeled out for a small brass machine screw, with a nut on the end, to fit across the crack.
Unclamp, fill crack and recess with bedding compound and reclamp, then all the repair is inside, and invisible.
Don't continue to shoot it as is, you'll end up making it worse.
If you need some help with it, I'm 15 minutes from you.

[Ergo the Qualmed]

More likely the tube threads are stripped. If it were mine, I would just silver solder it in. Finding a threaded replacement will be next to impossible.
The stock crack has to be de-greased.
Then clamped back together.
A recess dremeled out for a small brass machine screw, with a nut on the end, to fit across the crack.
Unclamp, fill crack and recess with bedding compound and reclamp, then all the repair is inside, and invisible.
Don't continue to shoot it as is, you'll end up making it worse.
If you need some help with it, I'm 15 minutes from you.

Ah, thank you!

The stock repair itself doesn't sound horribly bad, now i'm just concerned about the action tube...I have never silver-soldered anything, and just reading how to silver-solder things online, it sounds like quite a task...

I could figure out (potentially) how to disassemble the guts of the A5 (which I assume is necessary to silver solder that part or a new one back on), but then of course I do not know how to do that...perhaps I ought to just try and find a gunsmith who can work on A5s for an amount I can afford. Which isn't much haha... ehhh...

[joepamjohn]

Most early guns had tubes that were originally soldered in from the factory. This is an easy fix if you are somewhat mechanical. Take the gun apart completely (it probably needs it anyway) and degrease the area with Brakleen where the tube goes in. Get a S/S round brush and clean/shine the metal inside the hole at tail end on the reciever where the tube slips in (you can use some sandpaper around a small round implement too). Use sandpaper to clean the loose tube bright and shiney (these are the most important steps). Get some solder and flux from your local hardware or welding supply store (I used regular solder for brazing copper water lines and it has held for years). Wrap a wet (damp) wash cloth around the back of the reciever above the area to be soldered to help keep excessive heat from transfering to the rest of the reciever. Apply flux to both the hole and the loose tuble and fit together. Get your propane torch and get the area nice and hot until the flux bubbles and the solder will just flow right into the joint and it will be as good as new. Wipe the reciever down with oil afterwards and reassemble. When I did it the blueing didn't even get harmed.

[Ergo the Qualmed]

Most early guns had tubes that were originally soldered in from the factory. This is an easy fix if you are somewhat mechanical. Take the gun apart completely (it probably needs it anyway) and degrease the area with Brakleen where the tube goes in. Get a S/S round brush and clean/shine the metal inside the hole at tail end on the reciever where the tube slips in (you can use some sandpaper around a small round implement too). Use sandpaper to clean the loose tube bright and shiney (these are the most important steps). Get some solder and flux from your local hardware or welding supply store (I used regular solder for brazing copper water lines and it has held for years). Wrap a wet (damp) wash cloth around the back of the reciever above the area to be soldered to help keep excessive heat from transfering to the rest of the reciever. Apply flux to both the hole and the loose tuble and fit together. Get your propane torch and get the area nice and hot until the flux bubbles and the solder will just flow right into the joint and it will be as good as new. Wipe the reciever down with oil afterwards and reassemble. When I did it the blueing didn't even get harmed.

Ok, that doesn't sound quite as bad as I thought it would be. Should I buy a "new" tube, or do you think the old one would suffice, provided it isn't warped or anything?

Also, I have heard there are high silver/high temp and low silver/low temp silver solders, any particular kind I require?

Sorry, my soldering experience is limited to 5 minutes with tin and a soldering gun to make an RC-type battery...so this is uncharted territory x1000 haha...

[mikey357]

What joepamjohn described is a soft solder process. Copper water lines in homes are joined this way. You can use Hi force 44 from Brownells, it melts at 475F which is easily reached with propane. The solder will follow the heat and will drawn in by capillary action. Just dont overheat or you will have to take the joint apart because you would have burned out the flux and oxidation will take place in the joint. What I do is get the joint hot, the flux will start to boil, I pull the torch back a little so I dont burn out the flux, dab solder on the joint and it will pull itself in, if the joint cools off bring the torch in closer and dab solder. What you should do is get some copper pipe and fittings roughly the same size as your tubes and practice first. Its not too hard to soft solder.

[mikey357]

Youtube tutorial on soft soldering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35P2ABDWUA

Something to help you takedown the A5

http://www.takedownguides.com/takedown-guide-detail.phtml?pc=QkE1

[Ergo the Qualmed]

What joepamjohn described is a soft solder process. Copper water lines in homes are joined this way. You can use Hi force 44 from Brownells, it melts at 475F which is easily reached with propane. The solder will follow the heat and will drawn in by capillary action. Just dont overheat or you will have to take the joint apart because you would have burned out the flux and oxidation will take place in the joint. What I do is get the joint hot, the flux will start to boil, I pull the torch back a little so I dont burn out the flux, dab solder on the joint and it will pull itself in, if the joint cools off bring the torch in closer and dab solder. What you should do is get some copper pipe and fittings roughly the same size as your tubes and practice first. Its not too hard to soft solder.

Youtube tutorial on soft soldering

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B35P2ABDWUA

Something to help you takedown the A5

http://www.takedownguides.com/takedo....phtml?pc=QkE1

Oh, thank you very much!

Alright, this project doesn't seem quite so daunting anymore. It ought to be "fun" haha

Maybe I can pay my way through the rest of college by moonlighting as an amateur stock repair and pipe-soldering specialist, if all goes well!

[joepamjohn]

Ok, that doesn't sound quite as bad as I thought it would be. Should I buy a "new" tube, or do you think the old one would suffice, provided it isn't warped or anything?

Provided the tube is still straight, reuse it.

[joepamjohn]

What joepamjohn described is a soft solder process. Copper water lines in homes are joined this way. You can use Hi force 44 from Brownells, it melts at 475F which is easily reached with propane. The solder will follow the heat and will drawn in by capillary action. Just dont overheat or you will have to take the joint apart because you would have burned out the flux and oxidation will take place in the joint. What I do is get the joint hot, the flux will start to boil, I pull the torch back a little so I dont burn out the flux, dab solder on the joint and it will pull itself in, if the joint cools off bring the torch in closer and dab solder. What you should do is get some copper pipe and fittings roughly the same size as your tubes and practice first. Its not too hard to soft solder.

Exactly. I bought a solder called "Bridgit" made by a company named Harris. It has a small silver content and is quite strong. The Brownell's stuff described above will be fine too but then you have the Brownell's price, shipping fees and mail time to consider.This piece is actually supported by the stock which is why you need to normally push the stock on very firmly to get the stock screw started, so in reality there is not a ton of stress on it anyway.