.410 observations

[Pfletch83]

Here are a few targets I have shot with my favorite defensive .410 load (Federal '000' buck 4-pellet)

The first set of targets were shot at a distance of 15-20 feet using a full choked 24-inch barrel.





The second set were shot with the same load and at the same distance but using the 18.5 inch cylinder bore barrel.

[edwardm]

That's interesting.

On the topic of 'defense', my first (gut) reaction was "WTF? 4 PELLETS? .410? ARE YOU NUTS? That's not 'defense'!!!" But then the brain took back over and yeah, that's 4 pieces of .36" lead moving at high speed towards a bad person.

It would be interesting to compare penetration of that .410 load with .38 special in some ballistic gelatin. Since you're basically throwing 4 .38-sized rounds all at once.

[Dark Mod]

12 guage would be much better in just about every way

[edwardm]

Yeah, I believe in having enough tool (more than enough, even) for the job. But it's good to know that if you have to resort to your less-than-optimal tool, you can at least get the job done.

12 guage would be much better in just about every way

[meaty-btz]

.410 can most certainly get the job done if need be..

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=134695

The pictures pretty much cover it.

[Pfletch83]

12 guage would be much better in just about every way

Except for recoil control in a light weight weapon.

Also as far as carrying spare ammo without adding more weight to the weapon (using a buttstock ammo carrier 9 shells can be with the firearm at all times for the same space as 5-6 of the larger stuff)

Another thing you need to think about is the tighter pattern of pellets giving an extended practical range (the pattern will hold together much better than a 12 gauge with the same load and barrel setup).

Also the 12 gauge might be fine for one shooter but what about others that might be in the household and need to use the weapon to defend themselves?

[edwardm]

Yeah, shotguns are sort of beastly creatures, though any gun can stop an attacker if properly employed. I don't know if I'd trust one of those little 8mm Italian 'garden' shotguns, but from .410 on up to 10 gauge, you've got a hell of a weapon system available to you. With the universe of ammunition choices, plus useful accessories available for many shotguns, it's hard to say "gauge X is better than gauge Y" in an absolute sense.

Except for recoil control in a light weight weapon.

Also as far as carrying spare ammo without adding more weight to the weapon (using a buttstock ammo carrier 9 shells can be with the firearm at all times for the same space as 5-6 of the larger stuff)

Another thing you need to think about is the tighter pattern of pellets giving an extended practical range (the pattern will hold together much better than a 12 gauge with the same load and barrel setup).

Also the 12 gauge might be fine for one shooter but what about others that might be in the household and need to use the weapon to defend themselves?

[Pfletch83]

It has a lot of punch leaving a shotgun barrel and even though the average human is about a foot or so thick from chest to back bone (give or take a few inches for some) with a lot of tough bone and tissue in between those four pellets will be more than enough to get things done.

Am I saying that people are wrong for going with a 12 gauge?
Nope, it's just that the .410 is equal in power even though it has a smaller payload and lower recoil.

Which is a big plus if you think about it,as far as accurate follow up shots (if needed) and speed.

[aippi]

I finely ended up with a .410 pump as it was given to me. Took a nice Grouse with it yesterday and had a fine dinner last night. Perfect for that use as these birds stay in the thick stuff and on the ground. Only two pellets hit it, one in the head and one in the neck so no meat ruiend. And that is all I would use it for.

I would not go below 20 ga for a defense shotgun.

[Pfletch83]

This is for all the nay sayers...

Have you ever tried a .410 in a defensive setup?

If not give it a try,you really don't have anything to lose.

After a few range tests and comparisons you might see what myself and other .410 fans have been saying.

[Canucky]

I had a Flite King in 410. Gave it to a close friend. Thought about replacing it until I saw the cost Use what your comforable with. With reduced recoil loads today, to me it's a moot point. I will stick with a 12 gauge.

[ZombieTactics]

... Am I saying that people are wrong for going with a 12 gauge?
Nope, it's just that the .410 is equal in power even though it has a smaller payload and lower recoil. ...

You have a funny understanding of the word "power".

If this weapon works for you and - more importantly - you can work it well, that's really all the justification you need. I don't criticize another man's war bag, because it's not my business. I understand that you have some physical issues and that the .410 fits your capabilities very well. I'd never consider you unarmed by any stretch of the imagination. Excellent choice of ammo, BTW ... seems to do the trick for you.

But you really have to stop this nonsense of trying to pretend that a .410 is equal in "power" to 20 or 12. It's just not, and it's not a matter open to opinion. At some point in time you must acknowledge that the known laws of the physical universe do indeed apply to you as well as everyone else.

[aippi]

Al Gore let us all know that we could defend our homes with a single shot .22. As he stood on the stage and made this statement he was surrounded with Secrete Service Agents with MP-5's, SBS's and all manner of firepower. He of course, in his opinion, was entitled to have more defence then we are.

With that said, yes, a .22 will do the job if you put it in the right spot. As will a .410. But I do not want to rely on a weapon that leaves the end in doubt. I want certainty when my life is on the line and being the 12 ga. shotgun is most fire power I can bring to bare in a close quarters situation, that is my choice. And a 20 ga. shotgun is my second.

[resident-shooter]

wow its just another .410 thread where all the captain obvious's come and school us on how great 12ga shells is and there needs to be no alternative. Get lives. 12ga is heavy and kicks hard. U must hold it the right way or it hurts u, which in defense is not always possible. .410 in defense is MUCH more than enough to put a loose druggie down.

[ZombieTactics]

... another .410 thread where all the captain obvious's come and school us on how great 12ga shells is and there needs to be no alternative.

I think you might be well served to read more carefully before posting. Nobody in this thread has said anything close to "there needs to be no alternative" to 20 or 12. The OP in particular is fortunate that the .410 exists as an option, as it seem to fit his needs quite well. Given his (previously stated in another thread) physical challenges, suggesting that he personally "get a bigger gun" would be stupid and short-sighted.

Get lives. 12ga is heavy and kicks hard. U must hold it the right way or it hurts u, which in defense is not always possible.

So don't use it if this description fits your personal profile. For many of us these are trivial issues, and simply matters of training and practice. My wife has MS, and simply cannot handle a 12ga because of the issues you note ... her 20ga works fine for her, my 12 presents me no problems. The OP uses a .410. Why is this a problem?

.410 in defense is MUCH more than enough to put a loose druggie down.

Thanks for your expert opinion. ANY gun is better than no gun at all, and a .410 is probably better than a lot of things. Simply noting that it's not very likely as effective as some other things is not cause to feel personally insulted, anymore than any other simple point of fact should be.