When transporting can you have shells attached?

[frankiejoe577]

When transporting a shotgun in plain view or in a locked case, can you have shells in a shell carrier or in a speed feed stock? (Attached to the firearm) They are not in the chamber or magazine tube.

I would guess not but wanted to see what anyone else has to say.

[TNP'R]

Yeah you can but I wouldn't.

[stix213]

People vs Clark was about exactly this. You're good to go for a side saddle, though I don't know what a speed feed stock is. If you can just manipulate the firearm to get one in the chamber then its a no go.

[Calgunz420]

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

[TNP'R]

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

Wrong.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?p=5708999#post5708999

[Josh3239]

So so wrong.

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

[ironcross]

People vs Clark was about exactly this. You're good to go for a side saddle, though I don't know what a speed feed stock is. If you can just manipulate the firearm to get one in the chamber then its a no go.

It is this.



Though it's something I would not do especially going to GFSZ.

[coy80176]

Keep the shells out of the barrel and tube, and you're good to go....but, do stay out of school zones.

[frankiejoe577]

I was reading People vs Clark and it seems like they were saying that it was not loaded for the H&S code they were trying to charge him with and that with 12031 it was still illegal because it was attached to the firearm.



This is from peoples vs clark

12031 (g) "A firearm shall be deemed to be loaded for the purposes of this section when there is an unexpended cartridge or shell , consisting of a case which holds a charge of powder and a bullet or shot, in, or attached in any manner to, the firearm, including, but not limited to, in the firing chamber, magazine, or clip thereof attached to the firearm;"

Using this definition, the court told the jury "A shotgun is deemed to be 'loaded' when there is an unexpended shell ... in, or attached in any manner to, the shotgun."


The Attorney General argues the court's instruction was correct and the shotgun here was "loaded" within the meaning of Health and Safety Code section 11370.1, subdivision (a) because the shotgun shells, located in a storage compartment in the rear of the stock, were "attached" to the shotgun. [45 Cal.App.4th 1153]

[frankiejoe577]

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

Please read more on this website, ammo does not need to be in a separate container. You can have a handgun with mags full of ammo in the same container as long as it is not in the mag well.

[CSACANNONEER]

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

Please learn the law instead of just spouting/spreading FUD.

[thomashoward]

No you cant. Ammo needs to be in separate container from firearm and that attachment would be attached to the shotgun right. Thats for any firearm in california pending
Ccw,leo,etc.

Chamber and magazine unloaded same as a .45,a loaded magazine OK but not AFFIXED (in magazine well) to the gun. A side saddle magazine might be stretched to be considered AFFIXED. I see no mention of a separate container

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

[CSACANNONEER]

Chamber and magazine unloaded same as a .45,a loaded magazine OK but not AFFIXED (in magazine well) to the gun. A side saddle magazine might be stretched to be considered AFFIXED. I see no mention of a separate container

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/travel.php

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/Cfl2007.pdf

Case law has already been established and a loaded side saddle does not equate to a loaded gun in Ca.

[BigDogatPlay]

People v. Clark is controlling. And it does indeed address PC 12031. The key holding, shamelessly copied from the CGN Wiki....

Given the examples are all consistent with an intent to use the
common meaning of "loaded," it follows the Legislature's use of
the phrase "attached in any manner" to the firearm was intended to
encompass a situation where a shell or cartridge might be
attached to a firearm or "loaded" for firing by some
unconventional method. The phrase does not demonstrate a clear
Legislative intent to deem a firearm loaded no matter how a shell is
attached to a firearm; in particular, it does not indicate a clear
intent to deem a gun "loaded" when the ammunition, as here, is in a
storage compartment which is not equivalent to either a magazine or
clip and from which the ammunition cannot be fired. Our conclusion
that the Legislature intended "loaded" as used in Penal Code section
12031 to reflect the common definition is supported by the court in
People v. Heffner (1977) 70 Cal.App.3d 643, 650 [139 Cal.Rptr. 45],
which reached the same conclusion …

Wiki article here....

While it is possible that an under informed LEO could arrest you for a violation of 12031 for shells in a Speedfeed stock as shown above, the case should never get to a complaint being filed assuming a competent criminal defense attorney is engaged.

Anyone who says that ammo and an unloaded firearm can't be in the same container is spreading FUD, pure and plain.

ETA: I wouldn't be in a GFSZ with any firearm outside a secured container unless it's a concealable firearm and I have a CCW license. Too much room in GFSZ for me to be comfortable any other way.

[scootle]

i don't think anyone in their right mind can interpret a side saddle or speed feed as a "magazine".

that said... just to avoid confusion and potential issues, unless you really need to keep shells on the weapon during transport, why tempt complications?