Help! 870 won't always cycle well w/Pics

[bden]

It's less than 2 years old with about 800 rounds through it, and has from the beginning been a little tough to cycle occasionally. Unfortunately, the problem seems to be worsening in that originally 5-10% of the time cycling a spent round out of the chamber would require much more force than normal, but now it's probably closer to 15-20% of the time.

We shot clays Saturday only loading 2 rounds at a time. 80% of the time when it jammed up it was while trying to cycle after the first shot (as opposed to the 2nd round). I know short stroking it leads to trouble and you sometimes just have to put a little more muscle into racking the slide, but this thing is getting jammed - stuck bolt closed. Opening it then requires a quite significant amount of force. Any suggestions?

I noticed some damage to the plastic hand guard where the action bars connect...any thoughts?


The extractor seems to be angled slightly crooked. I doubt this is unnormal for an 870 or possibly part of the problem, but I'm trying to cover all the bases. It's very slight, but in this pic the extractor seems like it may be angled slightly up (in the upside down pic) more than level.


Thank you!

[racky]

i've had that problem on my 870 when it was new, but after i polished the chamber it was fine. i haven't heard of that problem on 870s with such a high round count.

[a308garand]

The dings to the forearm look like it is possibly hitting the forward edge of the receiver...as long as the forend metal is tight and not loose in the forend, knock down the dings in the plastic with a file.

The barrel chamber needs a bit of polishing to ensure it smoothly extracts. As it gets broken in, the overall function will smooth out.
See this link for barrel polishing for ensuring extraction

http://www.aiptactical.com/Page_2.html

[edwardm]

The extractors on my Wingmaster and my Express are both slightly clocked like that with no ill effects. Have been since new.

The damage to the forestock where it meets the slide bars is curious. I would check the tightness of the forend tube nut that holds the forestock to the forend tube assembly. The nut can come lose from use, allowing the forestock to wobble a bit, causing the damage you see. However, I think that's ultimately a symptom and not the cause.

When the action won't cycle, instead of forcing it, depress the action bar lock and see if that makes it easier. If so, remove the trigger group and inspect the action bar lock and the carrier+carrier dogs and see if something is hanging up, bent or not moving freely. It's a pretty simple mechanism to troubleshoot after you look it over.

If that's not it, are you seeing any unusual wear or peening on the barrel locking block recess and the locking block lug on the bolt assembly? Do your shell hulls look bulged or misshapen when this happens?

Without seeing the shotgun, I'm not sure if it is something in the action lockup or the action bar lock, but that's where I'd start.

It's less than 2 years old with about 800 rounds through it, and has from the beginning been a little tough to cycle occasionally. Unfortunately, the problem seems to be worsening in that originally 5-10% of the time cycling a spent round out of the chamber would require much more force than normal, but now it's probably closer to 15-20% of the time.

We shot clays Saturday only loading 2 rounds at a time. 80% of the time when it jammed up it was while trying to cycle after the first shot (as opposed to the 2nd round). I know short stroking it leads to trouble and you sometimes just have to put a little more muscle into racking the slide, but this thing is getting jammed - stuck bolt closed. Opening it then requires a quite significant amount of force. Any suggestions?

I noticed some damage to the plastic hand guard where the action bars connect...any thoughts?
[ATTACH]89785[/ATTACH]

The extractor seems to be angled slightly crooked. I doubt this is unnormal for an 870 or possibly part of the problem, but I'm trying to cover all the bases. It's very slight, but in this pic the extractor seems like it may be angled slightly up (in the upside down pic) more than level.
[ATTACH]89786[/ATTACH]

Thank you!

[bden]

The dings to the forearm look like it is possibly hitting the forward edge of the receiver...as long as the forend metal is tight and not loose in the forend, knock down the dings in the plastic with a file.

The barrel chamber needs a bit of polishing to ensure it smoothly extracts. As it gets broken in, the overall function will smooth out.
See this link for barrel polishing for ensuring extraction
http://www.aiptactical.com/Page_2.html

Thanks for the link! I checked where the dings are hitting, and the answer is nowhere as best I can see. It looks more like the plastic may have bent up from forcing the slide so hard to extract rounds rather than by making contact with another part. There is some play in the plastic handguard/slide and the action bars/tube, but not more than I think is appropriate.

The extractors on my Wingmaster and my Express are both slightly clocked like that with no ill effects. Have been since new.

The damage to the forestock where it meets the slide bars is curious. I would check the tightness of the forend tube nut that holds the forestock to the forend tube assembly. The nut can come lose from use, allowing the forestock to wobble a bit, causing the damage you see. However, I think that's ultimately a symptom and not the cause.

When the action won't cycle, instead of forcing it, depress the action bar lock and see if that makes it easier. If so, remove the trigger group and inspect the action bar lock and the carrier+carrier dogs and see if something is hanging up, bent or not moving freely. It's a pretty simple mechanism to troubleshoot after you look it over.

If that's not it, are you seeing any unusual wear or peening on the barrel locking block recess and the locking block lug on the bolt assembly? Do your shell hulls look bulged or misshapen when this happens?

Without seeing the shotgun, I'm not sure if it is something in the action lockup or the action bar lock, but that's where I'd start.

I'll no longer wonder about the extractor (phew). The forend tube nut is pretty much always tight. There might have been one time when it wasn't 100%, so perhaps that was enough. I did check this Saturday and other times in the past though, and it's pretty much always good to go.

Trigger group looks solid. I just played with it some more, and every one of its functions seems to be working properly. I also inspected the locking block, etc. All look normal as best I can see. Since the bolt gets stuck in the closed position I don't think the locking block is the issue because that would only engage if the bolt was slightly or more open. I didn't think to inspect (doh!) the hulls, so can't comment on that.

[inbox485]

Drop a line to aippi if he doesn't show up.

[BigDogatPlay]

The chamber polishing routine described on aippi's web site (linked a few posts up) will cure the overwhelming majority of sticky extractions. The extractor doesn't look that much off to me, but I'm neither an armorer nor a 'smith. I've just been shooting and owning 870's for 30 + years.

The dinged up plastic in the fore end.... yet another reason in my book to not like plastic but it's how things are now and how they're going to stay.

[aippi]

I'm here but you guys gave him what he needs so there is nothing for me to add.

[bden]

Thank you to all. I'll look into polishing the chamber and will go from there. Doing so won't void my warranty correct? There are no obstructions, plastic, or otherwise buildups in the chamber/barrel. If anything it's a tad dry, but I'll give it a go and will report back after my next range trip in the coming weeks/month.

[aippi]

Cleaning a weapon does not void the warranty. That is all you are doing. You have mess builit up in your chamber because it has not be kept clean. Do this every time you clean the weapon and you will not have issues with decent ammo but may have issues with mess like Winchester Universal.

[cindynles]

Cleaning a weapon does not void the warranty. That is all you are doing. You have mess builit up in your chamber because it has not be kept clean. Do this every time you clean the weapon and you will not have issues with decent ammo but may have issues with mess like Winchester Universal.

Winchester Universal is horrible. I don't know of shotgun brand that hasn't had issues with it at one time or another. I've even seen very expensive over/under shotguns with these crap-tacular shells stuck in them.

[aippi]

Cindynles - I request permison to use that word "Crap-tacular". I know so many applications for that word and have never heard it before.

[mdhpper]

Winchester Universal is horrible. I don't know of shotgun brand that hasn't had issues with it at on time or another. I've even seen very expensive over/under shotguns with these crap-tacular shells stuck in them.

Really??? I shoot that stuff almost exclusively. No problems yet.

[cindynles]

Cindynles - I request permison to use that word "Crap-tacular". I know so many applications for that word and have never heard it before.

Ha, ha. OK flashing back to my Navy days (Salute - "Permision to come aboard?") - Permision Granted

[aippi]

Mdhpper- I use it to test my custom builds as if they will extract this mess they will extract anything. The rest of the gun shooting world will have problems with the Winchester Universal target loads. These issues can occur in any model of shotgun. Weapons that are well broken in and that are properly cleaned can shoot this mess without issue, however, if you are shooting a lot of it in one training sesson the issue can occur as residue from this mess builds up in the chamber. You apparently keep your weapon in proper duty ready condition and keep the chamber clear of residue. Bad news for any perps messing around with your or yours.