Benelli M3 Convertible or Remington P Max 870??

[gcrtkd]

Hey guys--

I'm in the market for my first shotgun and I think that I've narrowed it down to either a Remington P Max 870 or a Benelli M3 Convertible. Anyone have any thoughts? I talked with our range master and he is a big fan of the Remington 870, but said that he doesn't know much about the Benelli, other than that it's supposed to be a good gun. I like the 870 because it is tried/true/proven, and can take a lot of abuse. Plus, it's such a common gun that you can get parts/upgrade it anywhere/time. On the other hand, the Benelli M3 also comes recommended by a couple of people that I know. The M4 version is apparently the USMC's new battle shotgun and is semi auto only so far as I can tell, using Benelli's new(?) ARGO system to load the next round after firing. The M3 version is a bit less expensive and it has a selector which puts the weapon in either semi-auto mode or in manual pump action mode. This is useful for firing lighter loads or less-lethal rounds like beanbags, pepper, or rubber pellets. I actually do have use for that capability, though not necessity. Does anyone out there know if the mechanism that makes the M3 semi-auto when it is selected to be in that mode is the same ARGO system in the M4?

Any idea on how much I should pay for either the 870 or the M3?

-thanks!

[gunrun45]

The Benelli is a good shotgun. AFter saying that, buy the 870. I've never had a problem with one but i have had problems with LE Benelli shotguns that were picky about cycling different loads.

IMO...anything "convertable" in the LE world just means "more that can go wrong". Clearing a jam in a shotgun at night while under stress is hard enough. Doing so with the "convertable" option...I'll pass.

The M4 stock on the Benelli makes it a AW here in CA and I don't know if your Chief will sign a letter for that. Mine won't. The M4 stock on the 870 just makes it a little more handy if a variety of people will be shooting it or you might be shooting it under a variety of situations (ie patrol, SWAT gear vest, off duty, etc...) wearing a variety of differnt gear.

[Jicko]

Benelli M3!

[Josh]

the m3 is easy enough to convert, its just a switch that you flip on the end of the fore stock.

You flip the switch, and you can use it just like a pump.

It is based on the older recoil operation principle as with the m1, not the gas assisted ARGO system as on the m4, also they make the m4 with a standard PG stock similar to the m1/m3 so the whole AW thing is a non issue.

As big a fan as i am of benelli, I own an M1, the 870 or a winchester 1300 is probably a better duty shotgun for everyday patrol as i feel it is a more versatile platform.

[Sal]

I have a M3 and a 870 wingmaster.

while the 870 is a tried and proven design, i prefer the M3 to it. so far i have never had any issues shooting any loads through it in semi and pump, mine is a older H&K police/tactical one, it was my grandfathers duty shotgun for years before he passed away and left it to me.

as for the 870, great gun as well. i have a wingmaster and i've actually found it doesnt like shooting the cheapo walmart 100 round packs of federal, sometimes the chamber is too tight and the brass part of the case will stick and not go in or out sometimes, it has actually been more problematic than the M3.

while this may be unusual, the M3 has never had any issues with the cheap birdshot, and the wingmaster has.

[Dump1567]

I own both. If you can play around with both before you buy, do so. I can't really recommend what is best for you, but the 870 has an excellent history & a ton of parts available. Ease of operation and pump action reliability.

The M3 is also an excellent shotty. Extremely easy to work on/take down and more aftermarket parts hitting the market thanks to 3 gun. It actually assists you in pump mode which is easy to activate.

A couple issues you may have with the M3 is availablility of repair parts if needed. Also, my M3 has the 19 1/2" barrel which is a little longer than I prefer on a HD/LEO type shotgun. The Benelli's are also weight sensitive, which means adding side saddles or lights may affect it's operation. It does weigh less than the steel frame receiver of the 870 (trade off seems to be more recoil). Manual of arms is a little more complex.

The 870 can really get heavy once you add sidesaddles & lights. Here's a great thread on the 870.

http://www.10-8forums.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=23865&an=0&page=0#23865

So you can see there's pros & cons with both guns. Buy both if you can afford it. You can always sell the one you don't like later. Good luck.

[gcrtkd]

Hey Guys--

Thanks a lot for all of the advice. This is precisely why I posted here before getting close to committing to anything. It seems as though I wasn't so far off in my vacillation... the opinions in the group appear split down the middle more or less, so it looks like I won't go wrong with either choice. I hope that more shooters respond with advice. You never know what little statement that someone makes will really stick in your head and be the mental swing vote.

I live in San Jose and one store said that they're selling the Remington (870 P Max) w/ pistol grip, mag extension, Surefire light, & ghost ring sites for $970. Is this a reasonable price? I mentioned it to our range guy and he balked a little bit at the price, saying that I might want to look into getting the base model and then upgrading myself. The people on this list have a lot more experience with souping up guns than I, so hopefully you all can give me some guidance on this.

That being said, how much should I reasonably pay for a Benelli M3? That same store also carries Benelli, but I would have to get them to order me the M3 in the 11606 configuration. My buddy told me that I should get an M4 stock for it, but he was a Marine and I think that he was talking about the type of stock off of a different type of gun, rather than what I first thought, which was the stock of the "Benelli M4". Advice?

I would never say that price is not a factor, but I've been told that the Benelli will retain its resale value better over time. Thoughts? Either way, I could afford pretty much any platform that I want... but I am a value shopper. I'm happy to pay more for whatever I get, as long as I am convinced that what I am buying is actually going to provide me with that much extra value.

-thanks again & Happy 4th of July!

[Dump1567]

I don't know what the M3's sell for. Mine was used and priced at $925. I ended-up trading an extra 870 I had and an AR upper for it. What's nice is it was built in 1988 so SR 922 doesn't apply. I can modify it however I want (within CA law) and not worry about the "no more than 10 import parts" rule.

Here's what I do when I buy an 870.

I buy the Security model on sale from Big 5 for $299 (currently on sale now). I than buy a police model rifle sighted barrel and police trigger group (steel) from brownells. Except for the parked finish and I think a spring or two, I now have the Police model. I than add whatever I like (col. stock, sidesaddle, sling, light etc.). I find this is a cheaper option than buying one already set-up from Remington. I can also usually sell the original 18" bead sighted barrel on e-bay for close to what the police barrel cost me.

I enjoy tinkering and building my own guns.

[gunrun45]

Find a used 870. You really just need a good receiver and trigger group. Everything else is replaceable. Try to find one with an 18 in barrel though.
Buy the stock you want.
Buy some scattergun ghost ring night sights.
Buy the forend light used from the EE at ar15.com or someplace like that.

You will save money in the end. Trust me. This also alows you to build the shotgun YOU like. Think Mesa Tactical for the side sadle shell carrier if you so opt.