Benelli M1 Super 90 ammo help please

[Saym14]

I live in a condo/townhome. I use 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck with 34 pellets (pretty hard to find) filled in the tube, nothing chambered, safety off. I don't use 3" shells since I would fit 1 less round in the tube with 3" and I think 2 3/4" is plenty adequete. On the side saddle I have 00buck and a few slugs handy, just in case engagement moves outside.

glad I dont live next to you! just kidding.

many experts say at least use BB or BBB instead of plain old buckshot.

[coolinsocal]

Thansk for all the feedback. I will comment on some of your comments.

Yes, this firearm is well oiled however has only about 35 or so rounds through it thus far so perhaps more use will free things up a bit.

Spending more cash on a Sure Cycle may work but seems rediculous when my objective is simply to find the lightest load the gun will cycle then work from there. I would rather spend the cash on ammo.

For anybody to claim THIS or THAT is the best home defense load is reckless as there are far too many considerations to take in based on circumstances of use and way too many other factors. There is absolutely no truth in one load fits all. Sure .OO buck will nearly tear an assailant in half but considering a home defense situation where kids or other family members are possibly in the next room directly behind where your assailant may be it is pretty obvious why you absolutely do not want your rounds penetrating through your intended target and into the next room. I made that perfectly clear in my original post. Out on the street .OO is great but I feel each different load available has it's proper use and limitations. You must consider all of the facts.

Thanks again.

[coolinsocal]

Go to Walmart and get a few boxes of heavy taget loads. According to the manual, it takes a few hundred rounds of these to properly break the gun in. It should be a little less picky after that.

Thanks compulsive, that I will do asap.

[Mstnpete]

Thansk for all the feedback. I will comment on some of your comments.

Yes, this firearm is well oiled however has only about 35 or so rounds through it thus far so perhaps more use will free things up a bit.

Spending more cash on a Sure Cycle may work but seems rediculous when my objective is simply to find the lightest load the gun will cycle then work from there. I would rather spend the cash on ammo.

For anybody to claim THIS or THAT is the best home defense load is reckless as there are far too many considerations to take in based on circumstances of use and way too many other factors. There is absolutely no truth in one load fits all. Sure .OO buck will nearly tear an assailant in half but considering a home defense situation where kids or other family members are possibly in the next room directly behind where your assailant may be it is pretty obvious why you absolutely do not want your rounds penetrating through your intended target and into the next room. I made that perfectly clear in my original post. Out on the street .OO is great but I feel each different load available has it's proper use and limitations. You must consider all of the facts.

Thanks again.

If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.

[5150bronco]

Go to Walmart and get a few boxes of heavy taget loads. According to the manual, it takes a few hundred rounds of these to properly break the gun in. It should be a little less picky after that.

this is just in reference to m1s90?

[Saym14]

If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.

why does he need to change the springs if its brand new only 35 shots? will your HK/B shoot the cheap light Walmart loads too?

[Mstnpete]

why does he need to change the springs if its brand new only 35 shots? will your HK/B shoot the cheap light Walmart loads too?

If you want to use all sorts of loads than the springs have to be replaced.

Yes, because my HK- Benelli is converted to a Open race shotgun and used for 3 gun competition.

[Mstnpete]

Here's my Pre-Ban HK-Benelli race shotgun!

[5150bronco]

It's in my M2 manual, and it's basicly the same gun as the M1.

Mstnpete, that is one bad *** Benelli!

okay. thanks.

lol......that is for sure.....jerk......

[randy]

How old is this gun?

Older Benellis may benefit from changing the shell latch.

[coolinsocal]

The last 2 or 3 episodes of the TV show "The Best Defense" on Outdoor Channel has shown penetration capabilities of OO, #4, and birdshot through drywall, furniture, and even a refrigerator (both empty and through multiple 1 gal jugs of water).

Caused me to rethink my home defense loads (my HD gun is an HK model M1S90 as well). I had 00 loaded before, but have birdshot now (3 birdshot shells followed by the balance in #4 buck). It will penetrate two layers (one wall) of drywall at typical inside the home distances but stops at the 2nd wall (with only a slight amount of penetration through the 2nd layer of 1st wall).

Unless your attacker is wearing leather, you are going to cause enough damage to stop him or slow him down enough get a 2nd shot off (or 3 with the Benelli ) with less concern for going through into the next room (or two).

The 00 actually went through 3 sets of walls... far more depth and damage than a 223/5.56 at the same range. #4 buck penetrated through 2 walls. Something to seriously think about.

My M1S90 will reliably cycle Federal multipurpose birdshot (1 1/8 oz #8), at least it did through a 4 day (~400b rds) class.

I have to agree with you 100% Barry. Fact based results through actual testing speak louder than somebody simply claiming with no testing that a certain load is best.

If you think it is reckless than don't use a shotgun for HD.
PS. My HK-Benelli m1 s90 takes all kinds of loads from hi power to low. Key thing is change all springs and have it tuned.

Using a SG for HD is not reckless, claiming 1 load is BEST for HD definitely is. What testing have you done? What factual results do you have to back up your claim? I suggest as a responsible firearm owner you realize the capabilities of your chosen load for it's desired target in the surroundings it will be used in and the repercussions of using the wrong load.
Having kids in a house constructed of drywall, I would opt for the load that would stop or seriously slow down an assailant in 1-2 shots (after all it is an M1) without going through the drywall risking injury of a loved one. And heaven forbid you miss all together for some odd reason or have over sprayed your intended target with your round heading straight through such a wall with a loved one behind it.
Let's face it home defense requires more knowledge than claiming 1 round fits all. #4 shot may work in certain situations but is not a BEST solution for all situations. I would much rather know with birdshot I stand less of a chance having an unintended target mishap.

Thanks to all who have given responsible, sound, and accurate advice.

[Mstnpete]

QUOTE: Using a SG for HD is not reckless, claiming 1 load is BEST for HD definitely is. What testing have you done? What factual results do you have to back up your claim?

BEFORE YOU ASK THIS QUESTIONS , DID YOU EVEN READ THE LINK I POSTED?
APPARENTLY ---- NOT! SO READ THE POST AGAIN!

Shotgun Ammo - Choices for Home Defense

Re-post Courtesy of Riverwalker's Stealth Survival

Many people hear about using 00 and 000 buckshot for home defense purposes. Inside the home 00 and 000 buckshot has a bit more ability to penetrate walls than you may realize and much than you should be comfortable with if you have neighbors that live close or other persons in your household, such as children. Likewise, if you are not careful and use shot that is too small it may be too light to penetrate deep enough to stop an attacker. Understanding the proper ammo to use in your shotgun will help you avoid unnecessary problems.



My preference in shotgun ammo for home defense is #4 Buckshot. Here are some comparisons to help you make your own decision about which ammo you should use.

Comparison of Shotgun Ammo

000 Buckshot is .36" in diameter and weighs about 71 grains per pellet. In a 3" shell you have 9 to 10 pellets and in a 2 3/4" shell you usually have 8 pellets. Velocity is around 1325 fps (feet per second) for the 2 3/4" shells and a bit slower for the 3" shells.

00 Buckshot is .33" in diameter and weighs about 60.5 grains each. 3" shells hold approximately 15 pellets and 2 3/4" shells hold around 12 pellets. Velocity is approximately 1250 fps.

#1 Buckshot is .30" in diameter and weighs 40.5 grains each. There are approximately 24 pellets in the 3" shells, and the pellet count varies from 16 to 20 in the 2 3/4" shells. Velocity also varies from 1075 fps for the 3" shells to 1250 fps for the 2 3/4" shells.

#4 Buckshot is .24" in diameter and weighs just a little over 20 grains each. There are approximately 40 pellets in 3" shells and the pellet count varies from 27-34 in 2 3/4" shells. This depends on whether or not the shot is buffered. Velocity speed varies anywhere from 1250 fps to 1325 fps.

#4 Birdshot is .13" in diameter and weighs a mere 3.2 grains each. In a 2 3/4" shell with a 1 5/8 ounce shot charge, there are 221 pellets with a velocity of 1250 fps.

Reference: http://www.wilsonprecision.com/shotinfo.html

Shot Size Pellet Diam Pellet Diam Number Of
AM/STD (Inches) (Millimeter) Pellets/Oz

000 Buck 0.3600 9.1440 6
00 Buck 0.3300 8.3820 8
0 Buck 0.3200 8.1280 9
1 Buck 0.3000 7.6200 11
2 Buck 0.2700 6.8580 15
3 Buck 0.2500 6.3500 19
4 Buck 0.2400 6.0960 21
F 0.2200 5.5880 40
T 0.2000 5.0800 53
BBB 0.1900 4.8260 61
BB 0.1800 4.5720 72
1 0.1600 4.0640 90
2 0.1480 3.7592 103
4 0.1290 3.2766 135
5 0.1200 3.0480 170
6 0.1090 2.7686 225
7.5 0.0940 2.3876 350
8 0.0890 2.2606 410
8.5 0.0850 2.1590 470
9 0.0790 2.0066 585
12 0.0500 1.2700 2300


The velocity is not the most important variable in most cases. Pellet weight and pellet count are actually more important considerations. At 3.2 grains, the #4 birdshot does not weigh as much as a simple playing card. Even at 1250 fps, it lacks the mass necessary to stop an intruder. The sole advantage is in the pellet count. That many pellets will make a large, shallow, nasty wound but the intruder is still liable to survive.

In considering the other loads, you have only 8 or 10 of the 000 Buckshot pellets, but they weigh 71 grains each, that is the same weight as a .32 ACP's FMJ bullet, and it is moving faster than a .32 ACP throws its single bullet. With the combination of weight and velocity, 000 Buckshot will penetrate any drywall and any non-masonry exterior wall with relative ease, and thereby possibly endangering your neighbors. Being only 10 grains lighter, 00 buckshot shares many of the same drawbacks as 000 Buck (low pellet count and high penetration).

With the #1 and #4 Buckshot loads, we cover the range of .22 rimfire bullet weights. The #1 is the same weight as many .22 WMR bullets, and the #4 is just a little lighter than the lightest .22 LR bullets. Both of these buckshot loads are zipping along at speeds near .22 WMR velocities, but with a much bigger payload. That weight and velocity gives you enough penetration to stop intruders and minimizes the effects of wall penetration.

There is also the difference in recoil and your ability to control your shotgun. This can also be of importance to those persons of smaller stature who may be able to handle the recoil more efficiently and with fewer problems. Being able to maintain greater control of your shotgun due to less recoil may allow you to get off a second shot if you somehow miss with the first. Which is a distinct and real possibility in the middle of the night and you are still half asleep. The ability to perhaps get off a second shot can sometimes make a significant difference in the outcome between you and an intruder.

And don’t let anyone tell you that you don't have to aim a shotgun. At distances inside your home, you will probably have less than 30 feet as a maximum range. The shot spread will usually be less than 10" even with an open bore. It is quite easy to miss a man-sized target at that range when you only have 10 to 15 pellets in your pattern. Then you will still have to worry about who or what is on the other side of the wall that your pellets strike, such as children who may be sleeping in another room.

With the lighter weight and higher pellet count of the #1 and #4 Buckshot, you have a lot more pellets in that 10" pattern and more chances to strike a crippling if not fatal blow to an intruder while not having to worry as much about the after effects of over penetration.

Ultimately you will need to make your own choice and decide for yourself which load you prefer to use for home defense. Your skill and abilities with your shotgun, the number of persons in your household, and the proximity of neighbors should all be important factors in making a decision.

[Swatguy10_15]

I live in a condo/townhome. I use 2 3/4" Federal #4 buck with 34 pellets (pretty hard to find) filled in the tube, nothing chambered, safety off. I don't use 3" shells since I would fit 1 less round in the tube with 3" and I think 2 3/4" is plenty adequete. On the side saddle I have 00buck and a few slugs handy, just in case engagement moves outside.

If the engagement "moves outside" you put youre weapon on safe and go back INSIDE and call 911. Youve now blatantly crossed the threshold of "home defense" shooting slugs in any kind of urban area outside. You never chase an intruder outside, once theyre out the door the "threat" has stopped and you continuing to chase will no doubt end with you being exposed to all kinds of legal and civil "liabilities".
Back to the post as stated above #4 buck seems to be the best choice. But nothing beats adequate training. If one wants to use a shotgun for HD, before loads are even considered getting the right training to utilize the tool (shotgun) correctly should come foremost.. Buying a nifty new black shotty doesnt come with the ability to use it correctly in a true unexpected in your home firefight. To defend your home and protect the most precious contents, your family training should come first. What youre sending downrange, well thats what calguns is for

[coolinsocal]

mstnpete, Yes, I did read the material in the link you originally posted when you posted it. What is very apparent is it would appear there are varying opinions on this.
As Barry mentioned the TV show Best Defense did hands on testing in several HD scenarios with results completely different than what you have posted in which they demonstrated comparitive differences in buck versus birdshot where the birdshot was proven to be far more effective in a HD situation than any other SG load given the many variables. Several others claim the same while I realize several back your claims. By the way they ( Best Defense) also do the same tests with Handgun and Rifle loads.
It is not my intent or nature to argue or go on and on over differing opinions however I still lean towards bird shot until more convincing results change my mind. Your link mentions nothing of testing or results it merely claims that is the way it is. I would rather back tested results seeing myself how the tests were carried out and witnessing the results. The TV show mentioned did just that testing several loads in several HD scenarios shooting through several household items. The results were obvious and conflict completely with what you and your linked info claims.
Thanks for the time you put into your info and concern, I do appreciate that but I feel seeing is believing and reading is just that, reading.
Take Care Pete,
TC

[5150bronco]

If the engagement "moves outside" you put youre weapon on safe and go back INSIDE and call 911. Youve now blatantly crossed the threshold of "home defense" shooting slugs in any kind of urban area outside. You never chase an intruder outside, once theyre out the door the "threat" has stopped and you continuing to chase will no doubt end with you being exposed to all kinds of legal and civil "liabilities".
Back to the post as stated above #4 buck seems to be the best choice. But nothing beats adequate training. If one wants to use a shotgun for HD, before loads are even considered getting the right training to utilize the tool (shotgun) correctly should come foremost.. Buying a nifty new black shotty doesnt come with the ability to use it correctly in a true unexpected in your home firefight. To defend your home and protect the most precious contents, your family training should come first. What youre sending downrange, well thats what calguns is for

absolutely true!

thanks pete for the info.

Hope to God nobody reads some of this stuff and ends up lock up.