Best Sabot Slugs for Self Defense

[erskatedoc]

The wife asked me to have some extra slugs on hand. She loves skeet and trap. As a result of her comfort with SG's, she prefers her M4 over a rifle. She asked me to get a few hundred rounds of Sabots. Any suggestions? I have little practical experience with Sabots. Cabelas has a sale on Winchester Supreme XP3 300 gr Sabot Slugs ($11.99/box of 5) with free shipping.

Any other suggestions?

[Ding126]

Aren't Sabot slugs for a rifled barrel only? I use standard type slugs in my M4 ( Federal 10pack for 7.99@ WM

[a.tinkerer]

Sabot slugs -- why not full-diameter slugs instead?

Inside the house and on the property the full-diameter slugs will be much much more accurate than necessary.
They'll make bigger holes in and out too without the need to expand.

Really, any *cheap* slug that'll make it through your choke is going to do the job very very well.

Buckshot inside the house is an even better choice, and in close range the shot charge sticks very close together, typically hitting at the same point with 'ragged hole' effects.


Sabot slugs are typically specifically designed to work well in rifled barrels or through rifled chokes.
They tend to NEED the stabilization of rifling and each gun/barrel is going to like one kind of ammunition more than others - without rifling or THE RIGHT rifling, they'll keyhole the slugs at worst or be inaccurate at best.

Although I own a fully rifled barrel for my Beretta (and it's scoped and set up for high velocity copper solid sabot ammunition), that gear is set aside for hunting. My 'home turf' shotgun is a cylinder-bored pump gun, with an external ammunition caddy that carries three Brenneke KO slugs and three magnum high velocity OOO Buck loads, the mag tube is filled (-1) with low-recoil OO Buck, which inside the house is plenty.




Cheers
Tinker

[a.tinkerer]

Before you buy in bulk, get a few different brands/models of slug ammunition to have your wife test in your gun.
Get something that will be accurate in your gun, and that she'll be able to shoot relatively accurately at close range - inside 30 yards.


A much better route would be to just send her and that shotgun to a 2-day course at Front Sight.
You won't miss the money, and she'll KNOW from then on what she can/can't do with that gun.
I'll bet that she won't have any finicky issues or fancies for this or that ammunition afterward.




Cheers
Tinker

[RogueSniper]

Yes and no. Normally Sabot Slugs are used in rifled barrels vs. Rifle Slugs in smooth barrels. You can fire it in either one, but your accuracy will be affected. What kind of barrel does your wife intend to use? Has she ever fired a slug through her M4? I'm more familiar with OO and OOO shells for HD, so I'm not sure if the recoil will be harsher with a slug. I bought some Hastings slugs that were designated low recoil/youth rounds. Someone else will have to chime in.

[G17GUY]

lightfield or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7g06a6RWC4A

[ChaparralCommando]

Yes and no. Normally Sabot Slugs are used in rifled barrels vs. Rifle Slugs in smooth barrels. You can fire it in either one, but your accuracy will be affected.

Oops, I bought sabot slugs for my smoothbore thinking rifled slugs were for the rifled shotguns. Any experience on how inaccurate hollowpoint sabots are out of a smoothbore? Do they keyhole or what?

I live in condor area, so would the copper sabot slugs I bought still work OK on foxes, coyotes, etc.?

[Noxx]

I've run Sabots through my smoothbore 20 and been pretty unhappy with them overall. For most uses I've returned to #2 buck

[ChaparralCommando]

Uh-oh. I have a 20ga with a 26 in bbl. I guess I could try to sell them to get some of my $26 back. Or maybe a gun shop would trade?

[a.tinkerer]

If your shotgun is set up for choke tubes you can likely get a rifled choke tube for it.
If so, get one and test the copper solid sabot slugs at whatever your maximum hunting distance is to see it they'll stabilize in the choke tube you can get.



Cheers
Tinker

[a.tinkerer]

Also -- on the linked article from box'0'truth


That's a good example of what you can expect.
There's one thing I'd like to comment on from his conclusions.
He notes that *although sabot slugs 'will work'* through a smooth bore barrel, it's not a good idea because it's a waste of money.

He's not quite complete with that comment.
I'd like to make the point here that they WON'T work.
Just because the thing goes bang when you press the trigger and just because the slugs will make it to the target (with crap accuracy) - they'll get there in an unstabilized fashion and that's just not good.
The job isn't done when the bullet breaks the paper.
If you're hunting - you need good and reliable straight line penetration.
If you're running expanding hollowpoint conical bullets, there's little to no chance in the world that they'll open up or that they'll make it through the animal the way you planned it.
That can (with great possibility) end up leaving you with an injured or maimed animal at worst and a totally inhumane kill at best - with good chances at ruining valuable meat and/or a good cape or mount.

For a bullet to work (including slugs) they have to hit where you point them, and they have to penetrate in a predictable and reliable fashion.





Cheers
Tinker

[a.tinkerer]

One more thing --


As there are always exceptions - I'll note two projectiles that I know to give good results through smoothbore barrels and in sabots.


One is good old fashioned roundball.
I don't know if anyone is factory loading roundball.
To get it right, it's important to make sure that the ball/sabot (or ball/patch - just like a muzzleloader!) diameter is the same or a thou or so undersize of the tightest point in the barrel. You want to be able to push it through with thumb pressure.
Too small and it'll bang around in there on the way down the bore causing poor accuracy.

Next is the Lyman shuttlecock-shaped slug (from their mould) run through shot cups. It's the one that's shaped like a badminton birdie or a pellet gun pellet.
They perform beautifully, fly straight, and don't tumble. They also penetrate very well on game and make a great deer load.

If I recall, the Lyman Shotshell Reloading Manual has recipes for 12 and 20 gauge slug loads.
It's very easy to load accurate hunting loads for your shotgun.




Cheers
Tinker

[Rob454]

Slugs woudlnt be my first choice for HD round

[ChaparralCommando]

Great info, Tinker. The article was informative too. If I decide to hunt big game with my shotgun I'll get a rifled choke tube. They only run about $36+shipping. I found this comment on another forum:

"About the only rifled choke tube I have ever seen that shot decent
groups was a scoped Browning BPS my brother had, with an extended rifled
choke tube. It shot Rem. Copper Solid Sabots into about a 4" group at
150 yards. With that said, for several reasons, he sold it, and purchased a fully rifled barrel for his Rem. 11-87, after he saw how mine shot(11-87 SP
with a fully rifled 21" SP barrel) the same Copper Solid Sabots. I regularly
cloverleaf my groups at 100 yards. All other experiments with rifled choke
tubes, in smooth bore barrels, did not meet expectations."

Looks like I picked the right gun! A lot of posts on other forums note how high velocity sabot slugs (such as the Rem. copper) do not engage the rifling in the chokes, just slide past it.

A source for the Lyman pellet slugs or roundball would be great, can only seem to find the molds for sale. Saw one guy on gunbroker selling 12ga lyman slugs but that is all. I found these gnarly slugs for reloading too: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/pro...number=0721620

[a.tinkerer]

The Ballistic Products site has a lot of great stuff for the slug-shooting guys.

There's at least one guy (professional full-time bullet casting company) doing production of that Lyman slug.
I can't recall the name of the place right now, but if you do some more digging with your search engine (perhaps include the mould model number in your searches) you'll probably find him.
It's a great slug for the smooth bore guns.

Still, I think roundball is the way to go.
Roundball doesn't tumble, it penetrates in a straight line and penetrates very very well, it's hell on game, and starting out at 12-gauge it doesn't need to expand -- so you don't have to think about whether or not it will perform properly.
It comes out of the mould in it's perfect form!
No kidding there too -- Roundball is devastating on game, and inside 75 yards, properly fitted to your bore and properly loaded it's plenty accurate for killing anything from coyote up to moose.




Cheers
Tinker