Shotgun Newbie question

[pennys dad]

Hi

Im looking for my first shotgun since I was a kid, but Im not sure what to get. I like the pistol grips of AR's and AK's and magazines. I am thinking a 20 gauge instead of 12. I will be using it for tactical shots and clinics, target and general fun shooting. It will end up being a Home defense piece when not at the range. I think it maybe fun to put a red dot on it.
What do you'all recommend?

[ZRT650]

I recommend not putting a red dot on it thats forsure. even though they are cool on COD, IMO its a waste and serves no purpose on a combat shotgun. If it were me I would get an 870.

[eccvets]

why not a red dot? it gives you a fast target aquisition as well as helps a lot when shooting slugs at something. In anycase, I suggest you go out and hold/shoot a lot of shotguns and buy the one you think feels the best to you. Each gun is different and each person is different. Their all just about the same in terms of relibility and cost (well when comparing semi to semi and auto to auto) and you gotta just find out which one fits you best. Try to find a club or a few friends to make it a bit cheaper for you.

[H2H]

Get a Rem 870 with ghost sights / side saddle / + 2 extension/ short LOP stock / light / sling and you are ready to roll.

pretty much the basic scattergun config

that's all I learnt at my Last ITTS shotgun class.

[Trapper]

Get an 870P or an express HD and put the money you would have spent on a red dot into more ammo. IMHO shotguns don't need rails, red dots, bayonets, or lasers. Just add ammo!

[MossbergMan]

Hand2hand and Trapper have great points.
However, I believe, Scattergun is still using crappy "tracklock" Ghost ring sights. If you getting GR sights (bead works just fine BTW) LPA GR sights are the best way to go. Vang Comp uses those and so do Benelli.
But really, instead of all the gee-whiz CSF/CDI (cool s%*T factor/chicks dig it) junk get training and ammo.
20ga. is just fine for HD if you're a smaller framed person. Ammo may no be as variable as is the 12ga. but you'll find field loads, buckshot and 7/8 oz slugs.
Attaching a white light is advisable for any HD weapon. You don't need a dedicated Surefire forened but some form of light is necessary for positive target ID.

[aippi]

I don't undestand how a red dot mounted on the receiver can help with slugs when the sight pictures changes with each shot. The rifle sight barrel has both sights on the barrel and would be more accurate with slugs then any receiver mounted optics.

If you are interested in a great 20ga Tactical that functions like the 870 Police as it is upgraded with the same parts as the P model (yes guys they fit the 20ga) go to www.aiptactical.com put the cursor on Weapons and go down and click on the 20ga Tactical. You can get the same wepaon with out the upgrades but with the specops stock in a matte finish from Remington.

[eccvets]

I don't undestand how a red dot mounted on the receiver can help with slugs when the sight pictures changes with each shot. The rifle sight barrel has both sights on the barrel and would be more accurate with slugs then any receiver mounted optics.
.

I dont get how the sight picture doesnt change. the slugs should still be going where the red dot is if you zero it to it. I mean obviously its going to change a bit up and down wise with distance but it shouldn't really change that much from where you zeroed it at unless your going from 10 feet to 100 feet.

[aippi]

The slug goes where you zeroed the red dot the last shot, not this shot as It changes some each time you fire and changes when you clean the weapon or anytime you take the barrel off. A shotgun barrel is not threaded, pinned or attached to the receiver, it simply slips into a slot and is held on by the mag cap. So the barrel moves ever so slightly each time you shoot and if the optic is on the receiver the POI changes as the optic is sighted to the receiver and not the barrel and where your last shot was, not the next one. This is why GR's are not the most accurate as the rear sight is on the receiver and the front sight on the barrel, yet, there are guys that claim GR's are more accurate then rifle sights and we know this is not possible due to the design of a shotgun.

Receiver scope mounts are not the most accurate either. This is another reason why both rifle sights are on the the barrel and why if you want true accuracy with a scope you use a cantilever barrel on a shotgun as the cantilever mount is on the barrel not the receiver. When mounted to the barrel a scope is sighted to the barrel and you can even take that barrel off and put it on another 870 and still be sighted in. None of this matters when using a shotgun at close range but for shots at range, which is when you would want a slug, it does

The post you referenced was to a statement about a red dot and helping with slugs. I don't understand how that statement is valid when rifle sights are more accurate and would be desired with slugs. I do not recommend any optics on a fighting shotgun, not needed, more to go wrong and borders on being nothing but a Tacti-cool add on. They are fine on a recreational shotgun or competition shotgun, not on a weapon you are going to stake your life on. The guy that posted this states the weapon is going to serve as an HD also and for this reason I say no to any optics.

Most all the regulars here would be fine with any sights on their weapon as they get enough trigger time and understand these weapon and know when the sights are an issue and are needed. They are not going to try and get a sight picture on some perp that they just encountered who is rushing them from 15 feet away with a crow bar he just used to break in the house with. They are going to point fire and put a hole through him that lets day light through.

However, the new guys that come here and ask a question do not have your knowledge and expirience. If they did, they would not be asking basic questions. Many of you advise them as if they had your level of skill and knowledge and that is wrong. If they say they are looking for a shotgun for HD, they need a basic weapon. Yet, they get all kind of recommendations for tacti-cool mess on the weapon.

Should this new guy encounter the same scenario that I mentioned above he is going to try and deploy that shotgun the same as he has been doing on the range where he is learning to shoot it. If he tries to get a sight picture on a perp rushing him from 15 feet he is going to get that crow bar buried in his head. You eliminated the threat because of your experience, DO NOT ASSUME the guys asking these basic questions have your ability. Point them toward basic weapon and accessories and as they get the trigger time in they can upgrade to some of the things you take as basic because of your skill level.