why are SG's viewed as HD guns and rarely SHTF weapons?

[hd0642]

granted they may be the perfect HD gun but i think they make a pretty decent SHTF gun too. the only shortcoming
might be lack of firepower in a sustained fight in this world of 30 round mags. i like the ability to top off the magazine
as well as insert a slug for longer reach. i'd feel pretty comftorble grabbing one on December 21, 2012

[sephy]

I'm with you. My SHTF gun is an 870P without all the do-dads. While I have much love for AR's they're simply not practical. In the end I sold all of my .223/5.56 rifles/uppers and only kept a dedicated .22lr rifle because I won't be bailing out with it anyway.

[Hayashi Killian]

The problem with a shotgun as a SHTF weapon is their weight and limited range. Typically in SHTF you need something that can reliably hit a target at 50m or more, something a shotgun simply cannot do. Sure, with a rifled barrel and sabot slugs you can shoot further, but there's a lot of recoil and they're accurate for targets that aren't moving.

[bakokid]

sg has limited range thus limited versitility, granted it is the best close up. but an ar/ak/fal is effective from 0-300,600 or more yards.
in shtf most dont really know what to exect or who to expect. best to have both. i dont wanna be close enough to use a sg, but if i am its good to have.
the biggest factor i look for in guns is versitility.

[sephy]

See now I disagree about needing to reach out like that. I think too often people think that in a SHTF situation that they're going to have to be taking down hoards of people at great distance, but in my book that's no longer self-defense. To me in a real SHTF situation we're not going to be going militant on each other, but trying to survive.

[evidens83]

I view my shotgun as both main HD weapon as well as SHTF weapon.

[Untamed1972]

See now I disagree about needing to reach out like that. I think too often people think that in a SHTF situation that they're going to have to be taking down hoards of people at great distance, but in my book that's no longer self-defense. To me in a real SHTF situation we're not going to be going militant on each other, but trying to survive.

What do our forces overseas currently use for CQB in urban environments? Shotgun is only used for breaching doors, everything else is done with rifles pretty much.


But I can see how in a situation where you're getting swarmed by multiple attackers at close range the shotgun would definitely have some advantage. But past 25yards your effectiveness really start to drop off unless you're using a slug, but then you're back to one shot per target in which case I'd rather have a more accurate rifle.


There is always a tool best suited for a given job, but sometimes you hafta try and find a tool that fills as many jobs as possible which means a little sarcrifice here and there on certain tasks to be able to cover the largest number of tasks with the one tool.

[PeterGenius]

Gotta have the lightweight weapon you can remain agile with. That is my only vote against ruling with the SG. Although I am all for having it strapped to your back.

[CAL.BAR]

The possible answers?

1. Lack of range
2. Lack of accuracy
3. Lack of ammo capacity
4. Relatively heavy weapon
5. Relatively heavy recoil (unsuitable for most women and small framed men)
6. Inconcealable
7. Slow to reload (10-30 rds in the .223 in a second or two - can't do that with your 870)

[Untamed1972]

The possible answers?

1. Lack of range
2. Lack of accuracy
3. Lack of ammo capacity
4. Relatively heavy weapon
5. Relatively heavy recoil (unsuitable for most women and small framed men)
6. Inconcealable
7. Slow to reload (10-30 rds in the .223 in a second or two - can't do that with your 870)

Not to mention relatively heavy and bulky ammo per round. You'd better make those shots count, especially since you're gonna hafta be close in to use it. You won't get much chance for follow up shots.

[Jason762]

Why are shotguns viewed as HD guns and rarely SHTF weapons?

Red Dawn invasion scenario or a post-apocalyptic scenario like The Road.

In the first scenarios the shotgun would be fantastic. Limited engagement range, adequate cover, (and honestly) a lack of necessity to fire the weapon. Your sheer presence with a firearm would be enough to deter most looters.

Now place yourself in the latter two scenarios. In such an event, you will be with or against people with high powered rifles. With The Road scenario, people will have been hardened and not easily dissuaded (or stopped) by a shotgun with limited range, capacity, and ammo. In a Red Dawn scenario, I highly doubt you will want to do your fighting with a shotgun. A shotgun requires you to be up close and personal, regardless of you using buckshot or slugs. A shotgun is also harder to manage recoil and slower to fire (especially if working a pump). I am sure a rifle-shooter can touch off 2 rounds of 5.56 or 7.62 much quicker and more accurately than a semi-auto 12 gauge (and for sure quicker than a pump).

Yes, there are specific applications where shotguns do better than any other firearm out there, but those applications are few. It (the shotgun) will either be at the top of it's class or at the bottom.

The rifle/carbine on the other hand can preform at all tasks but still do decently. Naturally we have seen or known of rifles being used for close-range shooting (perhaps we should look to SWAT, GSG9, etc for examples?), and naturally a rifle will excel at long range shooting and a carbine will fare fairly well.

So in essence the reasons for the shotgun not being preferred as a SHTF weapon?

1) Limited applications
2) Limited range
3) Slower to reload (obviously the Kalashnikov shotguns [Siaga-12's] are exempt)
4) Recoil management (I can manage my FAL paratrooper better than a 12 gauge)
5) Weight of a shell to rifle round(s)

It all depends on what you think will happen. If SHTF means protecting your place of business/residence after or during a natural (or not so natural) disaster, than a shotgun will be all you need.

Personally, I prefer a multitask-er, being able to cover a wide range of SHTF events with one long arm.

[xgi1991]

For HD, the 12 is my prefered. If I have to go Bell Telephone on something or someone (reach out and touch someone) my bolt action 30.06 will suffice. For the Red Dawn event, last one to the National Guard Armory is a rotten egg.
One thing to keep in mind with all this, is the law, if your planning on taking out targets at long range, there will be a small concret cell in your future post event. In the total Red Dawn event, you may not have anything in your personel armory that would suffice for combat (in California anyway).

[Cokebottle]

See now I disagree about needing to reach out like that. I think too often people think that in a SHTF situation that they're going to have to be taking down hoards of people at great distance, but in my book that's no longer self-defense. To me in a real SHTF situation we're not going to be going militant on each other, but trying to survive.

Agreed.

Let's face it... realistic SHTF situations we aren't going to be taking out zombies marching down the street at 100 yards.... we're going to be defending ourselves, our families, and our survival supplies. Whether it's holed up in our homes or in a tent in the woods, it's still going to be close range.

I would love to have something along the lines of a .308 or .30-06, but it's use would be pretty much limited to getting food. For HD or SHTF, a couple of handguns and a 12ga are both more than adequate, backed up by an AR/AK for perimeter defense.
The only use something in the .308 or larger range would be useful for against human targets would be as defense against sniper fire. If you're not taking incoming, it's going to be difficult to ascertain the identity or FoF status of a human target at over 100 yards.

[Cokebottle]

In the total Red Dawn event, you may not have anything in your personel armory that would suffice for combat (in California anyway).

Yup... If it's the ChiComs overunning us, we're going to be working with the US Military. They may be able to nuke the communications, command structure, and airfields, but they can't obliterate the ground forces, which are composed of trained individuals who, I have a strong feeling, would still continue to defend this country as individuals even without orders from higher command.

[GrimLock]

All I have right now are two shotguns and only one of the two will be with me in my car and the other at home. So I'd have to fight my way to a rifle and pistol and have the SG on my back.

I hope that I am home if the SHTF because I can hand off my 500 to someone else while I handle business with my 870. Yet I prefer for somebody to have an AR or any variant of a .223 or 7.62mm rifle. We can cover ranges past and under 100yds, then if we find ourselves in a house or structure I can take the point.

The fact that I can select between buck and slug is very good, yet I still would want the rifle because of the ability to carry more ammo and move faster.

For now my 870 and 500 will do.