shotgun opinion

[steelrain82]

ok so I've been looking around for some .22 and .303 ammo and came across the h&r Pardner shotgun. I know there are better shotguns out there but I was wondering if it's a good little gun for a first time shotty and if I should go .410 or .12 gauge so I could teach the wife.

[aippi]

they are fine shotguns, however, as a single shot the 12ga recoil is brutal. But then again, I am such a whimp I have to take two asprin just to cut my fingernails... I had a combo H&R in .270 and a 12ga barrel. I wanted the 12 ga for turkey hunting. I took it out to pattern it with some #4 Trukey loads and after one round decided not to use it. Ouch..........

[steelrain82]

so I should probably get the .410 so I can teach the wife. I'd rather get the .12 but she really doesn't like "big" guns and I think recoil will need to be manageable for her

[aippi]

Yes, for sure. .410 ammo is rather pricey but it comes down to how much shooting you are going to do. A 20ga with a Knoxx SpecOps is a good option as the stock soaks up 95% of felt recoil, the weapon is light and makes a perfect HD gun. There is a Remington 870 HD in 20 ga that comes with the Knoxx recoil reducing stock, an 18.5" barrel and two rd extension. Pefect Home defense gun.

[sargenv]

Actually, the turkey ammo is about the heaviest recoiling ammo you can buy. Usually a very large amount of shot travelling at a standard velocity. If you had bought target loads (2 3/4 dram - 1 1/8 ounce) you'd have noticed a LOT less recoil. Another option is the 20 gauge. Usually loaded at 7/8 ounce at 1150 to 1200 fps. This too will not be as severe as those turkey loads. I have an older H&R single barrel similar to the pardner that is not at all that bad shooting standard target loads. The 20 is a good little gun and just as effective at the shorter ranges as the 12. If you want to, you could always get the heavier 1 ounce, 1 1/8, and 1 1/4 ounce 3" loads if needed.

[maxicon]

I have an H&R Topper (similar to the Pardner) in .410, and it's a ton of fun. My kids really like .410, and this one flings the empty a mile (trailing smoke), which is also fun. Recoil is very mild, as you'd expect.

The 12 gauge, as was mentioned, has brutal recoil, and I won't shoot one, as they make my back hurt.

It's a fun gun, but not very practical for much of anything except plinking and small game/varmints, and it's a bit expensive to feed.

My choice for teaching people who are recoil sensitive is my Remington 1100 20 gauge. It's a practical gun, not too expensive to feed, yet has the operating complexities of a real gun, so they learn more.

Another good choice would be a .410 pump - Mossberg makes a 500 in .410, and I'm sure there are others. I have an old High Standard .410 pump that's also popular with the kids, as it feels and works more like a "real" shotgun.

I've got a Knoxx SpecOps stock on my Winchester Defender 12 gauge, and it soaks up a lot of recoil, but it's got a couple of serious flaws, especially as a teaching gun. Mine has no drop at the comb, so it points high unless you really scrunch down on it.

If you do scrunch down on it, you run the risk of having the moving part of the stock whack your cheek, which is a fast turn-off for a learning shooter, and a good way to develop a flinch.

It's better with an optic mounted, but that's not as good for teaching a newbie, IMO.

Personally, I'd spring a little more for a semi-auto 20 gauge (the most practical in the long run, can be used for clay sports, hunting, or defense) or a pump .410 (not very practical, but fun, and great practice).

[aippi]

Maxicon. Here is a technique you can try with the SpecOps. We all learned to shoot shotguns by placing the butt into the pocket of our shoulder and we do this automatically. The trick to the SpecOps, especially with a bead sight is to bring the weapon up high on the shoulder so you are raising the weapon up to your line of sight and not having to lower your face to the stock. Since it eats the recoil when fired properly, having the butt in the pocket of the shoulder is not necessary. Once I learned this I fire this stock on a bead sight 870 and I fire this 870 faster then my 11-87P. It is not a conventional stock and can not be fired conventionally. Cheek slap has never been an issue for me. I also use this method when using the Mesa LEO even though it is not as much of an issue, just habit.

[ultra-ag]

I just got one of the 12 guage single shot and I bought a limbsaver recoil pad for it. I haven't shot it yet but all of my research will be validated once I get to shoot it. I have another HD shotgun but this I got for fun and practice. You would probably look into getting the 20 as all the guns are pretty much the same size and weight.

[JDoe]

Took the words right out of my mouth.

A 20ga with a Knoxx SpecOps is a good option as the stock soaks up 95% of felt recoil, the weapon is light and makes a perfect HD gun. There is a Remington 870 HD in 20 ga that comes with the Knoxx recoil reducing stock, an 18.5" barrel and two rd extension. Pefect Home defense gun.

[maxicon]

Maxicon. Here is a technique you can try with the SpecOps. We all learned to shoot shotguns by placing the butt into the pocket of our shoulder and we do this automatically. The trick to the SpecOps, especially with a bead sight is to bring the weapon up high on the shoulder so you are raising the weapon up to your line of sight and not having to lower your face to the stock. Since it eats the recoil when fired properly, having the butt in the pocket of the shoulder is not necessary. Once I learned this I fire this stock on a bead sight 870 and I fire this 870 faster then my 11-87P. It is not a conventional stock and can not be fired conventionally. Cheek slap has never been an issue for me. I also use this method when using the Mesa LEO even though it is not as much of an issue, just habit.

Thanks, I'll give this a try. I've shot traditional rifles and shotguns my whole life, so I'm conditioned to a standard shoulder mount, even with ARs (same problem), and I'm not sure I'll get enough practice time in to break a lifetime of conditioning.

There are a few other problems with the SpecOps on the 1300 Defender. The action release button isn't as easy to get at with the pistol grip, and removing the trigger housing requires removing the stock, which is a PITA.

I've been wrestling with what to do about this. The standard stock shoots perfect for me, but the recoil is a bit much for my shoulder and back. The SpecOps is great at recoil control, but isn't a good natural pointer, and that's important to me. I'm thinking about going for a defensive semi-auto setup instead, but don't have the cash for an upgrade now.