Reloading Clinic

[sigguy552]

I prefer Spolar Gold.

[tanks]

I have the hydraulics, at the time I took the pic I had not hooked it up yet as I wanted to load some and get the feel of it before hooking it up.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Please understand you can load ammo with MEC's or Spolars and they represent both ends of the Reloading Machine scale. both will make equally good ammo. Right now that scale is from about $250 to $2500.
I got my Pacific,(now Hornady) DL366 used for $150 and it took about 2 hours to take it apart and clean it up to brand new. That was around 1995. Those machines are about $600 now and will load perfect ammo just like pretty much any other machine out there. Some just look better than others.

I had a Spolar and sold it because I figured out it was just a PW800 made with nicely machined parts. Plus that I got a great deal on it and sold it for 3X what I paid for it.

The one I wish I hadn't sold was the Dillon SL900 which has one feature the others really need to figure out. The SL900 won't drop powder or shot if a hull is not present!!! All of the rest of them will!!! Once you clean up a mess you will understand why.

Randy

[NotEnoughGuns]

are the cheap target grade shot shells from Walmart and the like reloadable? Federal and Winchester shells with an aluminum base.
Been loading pistol and rifle cartridges for years. thinking about taking up shotshells.

[ceh383]

are the cheap target grade shot shells from Walmart and the like reloadable? Federal and Winchester shells with an aluminum base.
Been loading pistol and rifle cartridges for years. thinking about taking up shotshells.

Yes they are reloadable, you just need to find the right wads. Some hulls, you can get 10 ~ 12 reloads out of, others not so much, 1 or 2 and done.
Personally, I use Gun Clubs for 12ga and WinAA's for 28ga, it's amazing how long they last.

[Revoman]

You still need to be cautious when loading hulls that have fiber bases, which most of the Wally World lower priced ammo has.
The one-piece hulls are best as there is nothing that will break loose and possibly jam the barrel. I super bad thing to happen.
The fiber base are more apt to break away completely or in pieces, either way, not a good thing.
I wouldn't load more than 3, maybe 4 times with a fiber base. One-piece, meaning that the hull and base are one piece of material, can be loaded 10+ normally, unless you're using a hot/fast powder. Then the crimp/folds will become brittle due to overheating and crack, leaving poor crimps.
Even the latest WW hulls are not fool proof any longer as they are now a 2-piece hull, the difference from a fiber base is that the WW base is plastic and not likely to break away, but possible.
The Remington Gun Club, STS and Premiers are all one-piece hulls and the most desirable to attain (as are 'old' WW). Gun Clubs have a steel head, while the STS and Premiers are brass (last time I loaded some anyway).
Crimps are actually important as they 'hold' the charge back just long enough for the best/cleanest powder burn.
Can you still hit a target with an ill crimped hull, likely, but why waste time/money/effort/components making lower quality ammo?

[W.R.Buchanan]

are the cheap target grade shot shells from Walmart and the like reloadable? Federal and Winchester shells with an aluminum base.
Been loading pistol and rifle cartridges for years. thinking about taking up shotshells.

I reload these for one way trips to places where I can't pick up my empties.

The Federals are better than the Win Universals. You can get 1-2 reloads on these hulls. Best to reload once and discard. Call them "Leverite" as in "leaver right there!"

I use the exact same load for these as my AA's and they are all done on my Single stage DL266 (arguably the best single stage machine ever built.)

If the crimp closes right then the stack height is correct and the shell will perform as any other. Note; these are loaded at the low pressure levels of Target Loads,,, NOT HOT ROD LOADS !!! 1100 to 1200 fps. My hot slugs loads are 1250-1300 fps and I have store bought low end slugs that are 1300 fps, so they are far from hot loads.

When you are talking 1600 to 1700 fps from a 1 oz slug, you are up in the Butt Kicker Zone and are good to go up against just about anything on this planet. And if you load these yourself you aren't going to do it on a Progressive Machine.

I usually load these one at a time with my Lee Loader in Blue Federal Slug Hulls and then Roll Crimp them on my Drill Press or Mill. I seldom do more than 25 in any given run.

There are so many things you can do while reloading Shotgun Hulls that I could go on for pages. But the stuff I load most are regular Target Level Shotshells. And they never change.

But if you need to shoot a Dinosaur I don't really have anything of that level, so I would just buy some of Brenneke's 3" Magnum Crush Slugs that are 1.5 oz traveling at 1600 fps at the muzzle and be done with it. For perspective these are @ 1.6 times the knock down power of the .458 Win Mag!

Pretty sure that Game Warden guy in the first Jurassic Park Movie was running these.

https://www.brennekeusa.com/hunting-ammunition/magnum-crushtm/

There is so much to do here it will provide a lifetime of fun, and if you want to reload Metallic Cartridges too, then you should buy one of my Buchanan Precision Machine Hand Presses and get started. I started reloading in 1971. Virtually everything I shoot is a reload of one kind or another. I have several guns that have never fired a Factory Loaded Round.

If you are serious about being a shooter then you need to shoot alot, and you can't shoot alot unless you Reload or are Rich. But right now, even if you are Rich you won't be able to find much store bought ammo to buy so you might be better off getting started reloading ?

I can sell this all day!!!

Randy.

[ceh383]

The Federals are better than the Win Universals. You can get 1-2 reloads on these hulls. Best to reload once and discard. Call them "Leverite" as in "leaver right there!"

I use the exact same load for these as my AA's and they are all done on my Single stage DL266 (arguably the best single stage machine ever built.)



Randy.

Interesting...
Aren't the Fed hulls straight walled and the Win hulls tapered?
Shouldn't they use different wads?
Tapered wads in straight hulls can have blow-by and screw up patterns.
Straight wads in tapered hulls, well, they just don't fit right.

[W.R.Buchanan]

No, both the cheap hulls are strait wall. STS and AA hulls are tapered, but the whole point is whether the gas seal will seal all the way up the hull, and the answer is that they seal just fine in both cases. They both have 8,000+ psi encouraging the gas seal to expand at the moment of firing to seal in the hull.

You can tell this when you push the wad into the hull, if there is tension on it as it is inserted then the gas seal will work.

This is not new, and I have been doing it for 20+ years.

When I said "understanding what you are doing" is more important than blindly following Recipes to the letter,,, this is what I was talking about. Not talking about blindly changing things you don't understand the ramifications of.

You guys should go over to Castboolits.com and check out the "Casting and Reloading for Shotguns forum." I am there alot and we do alot of experimentation with Slugs, Buckshot, and Birdshot loading.

Once again, I am only loading on the low side of the pressure curve. But I am also saying that if you don't understand what you are doing,,, don't do it, or get someone to explain it to you so you understand it as well.

There is alot of Safety Factor built into Shot Shells. And on the "Target Load" end of the spectrum there is even more since the pressures involved are not remotely close to the high end.

The biggest variable is substituting Hot Federal Primers for other lesser primers in loads that are close to the top end. Certain Federal Primers can spike pressures 3000 psi and if your beginning load is up in the 10,000+ psi range you can go out the top easily. This shows up mostly in heavy hunting loads where guys are trying to get those extra few yards out of their ammo to get those last few ducks.,

There are only 5 components in a shotshell. Hull, Primer, Powder, Wad, Shot/ Payload, and then there is the crimp which also plays a part. The two most critical parts are the Powder Charge and the Primer. But that hull will not know the difference between 1 oz of shot and a 1 oz Slug or Buckshot, it also won't know the difference between #8 shot and #4 shot, but there are different Recipes for both in the myriad of data for loading shot shells. If you search enough places long enough, you can probably find Recipes for any combination of components you have on hand.

I have loaded hundreds of STS hulls on my 366. They load exactly the same as new AA's and require no change in the set up. And if you look at load data for both hulls you can see that other than the wad all the rest of the Components are the same. One uses a Remington wad and the other uses a Winchester wad, but Claybuster WAA clones are usable in both hulls.

I am not saying that people should just go out and experiment blindly, and throw together whatever they want. If you don't fully understand what you are doing, then you need to follow Data exactly. That should keep you safe.

Randy

[ceh383]

Information varies depending on where you read it...
Win AACF (compression formed) are a true tapered hull, 1 piece design. Win AAHS (high strength) are 2 piece design, straight walls with a cupped plastic base wad to mimic the tapered hulls. I've read, in several places the universals use a similar base wad and to use AA load data. I've also read, in some places, they use a fiber base wad and to use straight wall load data. I've also read you never know what you will get with the universals. I think the latter is most likely true.
One thing is different, the wall thickness, the Universals are about .010" thinner.

I don't load Winchesters or the Universals, no need to. I have enough Gun Club and AAHS hulls to last me a very long time. If I ever need to, I'll gather some hulls and cut some apart to see exactly what they are before loading.

[W.R.Buchanan]

The Universals have unbelievably bad crimps for factory loaded rounds. I even made Winchester aware of it at 2020 SHOT.
I try to get Federals from Walmart if available and the crimps have a nice radius on the end that looks like they were finished on a roll crimper.

What I can do with them if I feel like it is finish the Universals with my roll crimp tool to give that nice radius that promotes feeding in my guns. It only takes a few seconds but that said, Winchester could do it by just adjusting the crimp function on their machines. just shows nobody gives a poop there.

I only load them for practice rounds as I bought 2500 new style AA's from a guy in Vegas a few years ago, and will have AA's for the rest of my life. I haven't used up all my Old style AA's yet and when they are finally gone or turned into practice loads then I'll start in on the new batch. They are all on their last run thru so they will be gone soon.

Randy

[ceh383]

Even some of the AAHS factory crimps don't look all that good.

Factory ammo...

Factory.jpg

And then there's the reloads...

Reload.jpg

The factory crimps just don't look deep enough.

BTW, these are 28ga

[W.R.Buchanan]

Don't know how you upload your pics but they don't show up for me.

Randy

[whutsup40]

Even some of the AAHS factory crimps don't look all that good.

Factory ammo...

[ATTACH]1050575[/ATTACH]

And then there's the reloads...

[ATTACH]1050577[/ATTACH]

The factory crimps just don't look deep enough.

BTW, these are 28ga

Why do they need to be so deep?

[W.R.Buchanan]

Thanks Whatsup! now I can see his pics!

The factory loads could be a little deeper maybe .010 and the reloads could be a little less deep maybe +.010-.020.

Those are 28 ga. so the hulls wall thickness which is the same as a 12 ga hull is going to be more of a factor than on a 12 ga. IE: trying to bend it tighter.

Really nothing wrong with either one.

The problem with the Factory Universals is that the Crimp is not deep enough and as a result the top edge is flared out instead of tapered in. This is all about die setup on the loading machines, and could be fixed with a simple die adjustment.



The Federals look much better, but they all go bang.

Randy.