Remington Shotguns From Here On

[SoftHeart]

A question for the business folks here on Remington, about the folks who bought the company.

Are the folks who bought the end of the business that produced the Versa Max and V3 capable of eventually producing these guns to a high standard in the future, or is that a dream?


Do the folks who bought this end of the company know what they're doing?

[-hanko]

Who the hell knows until they actually produce guns?

Update May 10, 2021...see post #15

[glilon]

As long as their attitude isn't, "what corners can we cut?"

[SoftHeart]

Who the hell knows until they actually produce guns?

Nobody is going to know, and that wasn't my question. I asked if they were capable of doing it, so go back to sleep.


So my question still stands particularly if the folks who bought this end of the business are even capable of producing good guns.

I'm not expecting predictions from a crystal ball, just estimates from folks who know shotguns, and who have the business rep to know anything about the folks, and their skill sets (if they have any), re making guns, who bought the company.

[Odd_Ball]

I'm not expecting predictions from a crystal ball

Magic eight ball says 'cannot predict now' ...

[BajaJames83]

Well a couple months back they had announced that they are back u p and running with a slimmed down product line but still have the classics!

I havent heard of any hitting stores yet but soon I hope. I want a new V3

https://www.remarms.com/

We can dream that they will focus more on quality than cutting costs.

[SoftHeart]

Classics they are!! The V3 is out of stock everywhere, so the guns will be coming from the new folks.

[-hanko]

Nobody is going to know, and that wasn't my question. I asked if they were capable of doing it, so go back to sleep.

So my question still stands particularly if the folks who bought this end of the business are even capable of producing good guns.

I'm not expecting predictions from a crystal ball, just estimates from folks who know shotguns, and who have the business rep to know anything about the folks, and their skill sets (if they have any), re making guns, who bought the company.

Yet no one still knows if they are capable, until they make a few guns, and that has yet to happen. Your crystal ball is as good as a wild azz guest. It remains to be seen if their guns are good or not.

[SoftHeart]

Question A: Is he going to hit a homerun tonight?


Question B: Is this guy a good hitter?



1st question ASKS for a prediction.


2nd question asks about past performance.



Got it. You need a "Crystal Ball" to answer the 1st question, you don't need one for the 2nd question which asks about his capability/whether or not he's done it before.



Quit coming up w/straw men-putting words in my mouth and read what I said.


These folks either have experience doing this, or they've never done it before. If they do have experience doing it, they've either done it well or badly.

If they've never done it before, that's also a fact, regarding/considering past performance.



If you're getting eye surgery, your car repaired, your garage fixed, you question who's gonna do it w/past performance, that's got nothing to do w/a "wild azz guess" or a crystal ball.


It's called due diligence, which I know you've heard of.



In fact this is what ANYBODY does w/any sense, when it comes to something like surgery on their eyes, or anything else serious, they will ASK about past performance, so they DON'T have to make a "wild azz quess"


I even spelled it out: "I'm not expecting predictions from a crystal ball" which you troll into my/"your crystal ball"; now READ what I said, because it's not what you're saying.


Now if this doesn't make sense to you it's because you don't want to admit it.

[Imageview]

The people who bought remington aren't an established business group, like say Ruger. We know Ruger can make guns, and can assess the quality of the guns they make. This group appears to have some firearms or firearms adjacent experience, but it's not a complete company that has everyone who has worked together and brought firearm products to market previously.

What we know about this group is they bought everything needed to make good guns, and there is personnel available who have the skills to make good guns. But they haven't actually seemed to make much yet, and to me that's a bad sign. It takes time, but taking their time in the hottest gun market pretty much ever isn't confidence inspiring for me personally.

I'd buy one of the first ruglins when they come off the line if I was in the market for what they will end up producing (likely not, as I kinda want a 444 and my guess is that 444s have gone the way of the dodo). Ruger will want to make a good first impression and will likely fix anything if it's not perfect. They've likely learned from remington's experience with Marlin. The rem arms folks? Who knows what they are capable of and what their business practices will be.

[SoftHeart]

Thank you for a thoughtful consideration of where things are at right now, as to their strengths and weaknesses, and what they have and haven't done.

Exactly what I wanted to know.


Thanks.

[-hanko]

The people who bought remington aren't an established business group, like say Ruger. We know Ruger can make guns, and can assess the quality of the guns they make. This group appears to have some firearms or firearms adjacent experience, but it's not a complete company that has everyone who has worked together and brought firearm products to market previously.

What we know about this group is they bought everything needed to make good guns, and there is personnel available who have the skills to make good guns. But they haven't actually seemed to make much yet, and to me that's a bad sign. It takes time, but taking their time in the hottest gun market pretty much ever isn't confidence inspiring for me personally.

I'd buy one of the first ruglins when they come off the line if I was in the market for what they will end up producing (likely not, as I kinda want a 444 and my guess is that 444s have gone the way of the dodo). Ruger will want to make a good first impression and will likely fix anything if it's not perfect. They've likely learned from remington's experience with Marlin. The rem arms folks? Who knows what they are capable of and what their business practices will be.

Like you, I would have expected the group would have hopped on production given the current market.

I'd also note that Ruger hasn't really developed shotgun manufacturing, as they have with pistols and some rifles. Their initial o/u was not in keeping with it's price, and the "improved" version of the gun didn't last.

[Imageview]

I think shotguns are a harder niche to compete in, the beretta group and browning are both pretty fierce, cz and weatherby hang in, there are niche players in single shots and tactical types, and the turkish companies don't agressively market themselves in the us.

If I were pitching vc on bringing a new brand into the shotgun market, I'd expect 5-10 years of operating loss while building up brand position minimum. That sort of opportunity cost for someone like Ruger who focuses on solid year in year out returns and iterative progress rather than revolutionary new products seems like a bad fit.

[hermosabeach]

We, the Gun consumer, are cheap....

While costs increased for decades, a basic mossberg 500 or rem 870 did not increase all that much.

They found a way to make them cheaper.


If the economy stays strong - we might see a higher priced and better gun

If the economy tanks, or people stop buying guns like they did in 1995 after the Clinton AWB passed.... who knows what manufacturers will make

[-hanko]

https://www.syracuse.com/business/2021/05/remington-reopens-upstate-new-york-gun-factory.html