Winchester Model 97

[orbust]

You don't just change a barrel on a 97 like you would on a Rem 870, you need the whole front half of a take down model.

right, and I can't find them. Any sources you recommend? Someone earlier suggested those parts were a dime a dozen.

[orbust]

Made late in 1923, with 19,915 made that year.

Its crazy how good condition it is for being 100 years old. I don't think her father ever even shot it, but grandpa used to duck hunt with it.

[TMB 1]

Made late in 1923, with 19,915 made that year.

What are you using to date? I have a book by George Madis that would put op's 778820 serial at late 1927 with 13,047 made.

[SkyHawk]

I spit my coffee out when he was showing the 38 special and said "if things get dicey I can also shoot it directly from my pocket" and then he shoots the target literally through his shorts pocket.

One thing I have learned from years of watching his videos, the man has pockets to spare and no shortage of things to produce from them, like a magician

[SkyHawk]

right, and I can't find them. Any sources you recommend? Someone earlier suggested those parts were a dime a dozen.

I think they are starting to dry up. Call this place and see what they have

http://www.corsonsbarrels.com/corsonsbarrels.com/

[TRAP55]

What are you using to date? I have a book by George Madis that would put op's 778820 serial at late 1927 with 13,047 made.

Madis guessed at what he didn't have, but no one but him knew that for years, and took it for gospel. That all fell apart when the Polishing Room Records were found on microfilm. That's where and when the actual serial number was applied, and the true date of manufacture. Explained better here:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=410211

[TRAP55]

right, and I can't find them. Any sources you recommend? Someone earlier suggested those parts were a dime a dozen.

You'll hate me for this, but I just recently saw one on ebay or GB, that came up on my search for something else, that it wasn't even related to. It wasn't listed right, so a search for a 97 barrel probably won't bring it up.
I'm having a helluva time myself lately, trying to find parts, and I have at least 60 sources bookmarked! Most of the hard to find stuff, I've found by accident because it was listed as something else.

[TMB 1]

Madis guessed at what he didn't have, but no one but him knew that for years, and took it for gospel. That all fell apart when the Polishing Room Records were found on microfilm. That's where and when the actual serial number was applied, and the true date of manufacture. Explained better here:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=410211

Oh, I didn't know that. If you don't mind. What would 1897s, 417,xxx and 525,xxx be? Madis book dates to 1909 and 1913.

also have 94 lever 1,062,xxx and 3,670,xxx that Madis book dates to 1929 & 1972 and 1892 588,xxx that Madis book dates to 1911.

[TRAP55]

Don't mind at all, but post them at that link, and I'll look them up for you. I don't want to thread jack orbust.

[TMB 1]

Don't mind at all, but post them at that link, and I'll look them up for you. I don't want to thread jack orbust.

Ok, posted in that link. Thank You.

[highpower]

Sweet bayonets. I am assuming that the trench and riot models both have the bayonet attachment points? I just looked all over for a barrel that has this feature and couldn't find one. Couldn't even find short barrel without them. Do you know of any sources? If I can find a shorter barrel for it, I think I will use it for home defense.

Only trench gun models had the heat shield which also had the bayonet attachment. Although the both the riot and trench guns used the same length barrel, the barrels were different from each other. If you look at the picture I posted of my Winchesters, you will notice that the barrel on the '97 does not have a front sight. Riot guns still used a brass bead and will have a threaded hole for their installation. Trench guns never had a bead front sight since the sight was mounted on the handguard. Also, on original Trench gun barrels there will be three scallops cut on the underside of the barrel that correspond to where the three screws go through to secure the handguard. Those scallops are what actually keep the handguard from riding forward under recoil.

In addition, the real easy and fast way to tell a genuine WWI era Model 1897 trench gun is that all original TG's were built on the solid frame model.

Fun fact: All US trench guns used the Model 1917 bayonet. I think it's because when Winchester was making the original test models, they were making US Model 1917 rifles and bayonets and it makes sense that they would use the type of bayonet they had on hand. There were enough of the M1917 bayonets on hand in US inventory to get through WWII, but by the time Vietnam came along the supply was running low, so the Government contracted with General Cutlery and Canadian Arsenals Limited to produce new M1917 bayonets.

US 1917 bayonets:
Top, Remington
Middle, Winchester
Bottom, General Cutlery



All riot and trench gun barrels were cylinder bored and were marked as such.



The bits and pieces to make up a Model 97 trench gun clone are indeed getting much harder to find nowadays due to it being so long since they were made, combined with the untold numbers of long barreled '97's that have been cut down over the years to make faux Trench guns. If I was going to do it, I would look at getting a complete extra front assembly and use that.

I have a complete extra Model 12 front end cut to mimic a riot gun that I picked up a while back that will probably be listed for sale pretty soon if anyone is interested. I was going to make up a riot gun but I haven't been able to find a cheap Model 12 so I could use the rear half.

[orbust]

Only trench gun models had the heat shield which also had the bayonet attachment. Although the both the riot and trench guns used the same length barrel, the barrels were different from each other. If you look at the picture I posted of my Winchesters, you will notice that the barrel on the '97 does not have a front sight. Riot guns still used a brass bead and will have a threaded hole for their installation. Trench guns never had a bead front sight since the sight was mounted on the handguard. Also, on original Trench gun barrels there will be three scallops cut on the underside of the barrel that correspond to where the three screws go through to secure the handguard. Those scallops are what actually keep the handguard from riding forward under recoil.

In addition, the real easy and fast way to tell a genuine WWI era Model 1897 trench gun is that all original TG's were built on the solid frame model.

Fun fact: All US trench guns used the Model 1917 bayonet. I think it's because when Winchester was making the original test models, they were making US Model 1917 rifles and bayonets and it makes sense that they would use the type of bayonet they had on hand. There were enough of the M1917 bayonets on hand in US inventory to get through WWII, but by the time Vietnam came along the supply was running low, so the Government contracted with General Cutlery and Canadian Arsenals Limited to produce new M1917 bayonets.

US 1917 bayonets:
Top, Remington
Middle, Winchester
Bottom, General Cutlery



All riot and trench gun barrels were cylinder bored and were marked as such.



The bits and pieces to make up a Model 97 trench gun clone are indeed getting much harder to find nowadays due to it being so long since they were made, combined with the untold numbers of long barreled '97's that have been cut down over the years to make faux Trench guns. If I was going to do it, I would look at getting a complete extra front assembly and use that.

I have a complete extra Model 12 front end cut to mimic a riot gun that I picked up a while back that will probably be listed for sale pretty soon if anyone is interested. I was going to make up a riot gun but I haven't been able to find a cheap Model 12 so I could use the rear half.

I have learned so much from you guys. I love the pics and hearing everyone's experiences with this shotgun.

[orbust]

Don't mind at all, but post them at that link, and I'll look them up for you. I don't want to thread jack orbust.

Talk about whatever you want in here Trap.... its all good!

[TRAP55]

orbust, thanks, we got it taken care of in that thread link. Check out my last post there for Bert's survey on the 97's. Every gun surveyed adds a little more of the missing puzzle pieces.
I think I drooled a little looking at Highpower's pics, and he posted some good info on the Trench and Riot models too.

[Huntsprig]

It was the gun to have way back when.
Here's a hunting trip Granddad took.
One of those 97's were his.