Practice, Practice, Practice... BRUISE

[StandardFinn]

Hey CG Shotgun friends.

Took a lesson with one of the best clay shooters/instructors in SoCal recently after shooting for a while & learning on my own. He changed my mounting position and my shoulder could barely handle 75 cycles this weekend - physically couldn't go on.

I was an amateur golfer during college and understand that in the shotgun sports world, small adjustments like this are akin to changing someone's grip in golf - I feel awkward, unnatural and my shoulder is pissed. I'm a pretty thin/lanky dude at 6'2" 185, there's not a lot of cushion on my shoulder and I'm used to tucking the butt into my chest more than my shoulder to help also. He was dropping the gun lower than I'm used to and asking me to place my cheek much further up the stock than I'm used to as well.

Anyone have any advice in these regards? I feel like it's possible I need to have my gun fitted to me at this point to help. I have an A400 xplor with a kickoff, but he had me use his gun with an extra 2" stock and it was slightly more comfortable... I was borderline embarrassed I couldn't continue... it's possible while he was adjusting me I took an off angle hit to my shoulder and it was downhill from there.

Appreciate anyone's input and similar experiences/how you got past this.

[The War Wagon]

Gel butt pad.

Shooting jacket.

[fecalguns]

Hey CG Shotgun friends.

Took a lesson with one of the best clay shooters/instructors in SoCal recently after shooting for a while & learning on my own. He changed my mounting position and my shoulder could barely handle 75 cycles this weekend - physically couldn't go on.

I was an amateur golfer during college and understand that in the shotgun sports world, small adjustments like this are akin to changing someone's grip in golf - I feel awkward, unnatural and my shoulder is pissed. I'm a pretty thin/lanky dude at 6'2" 185, there's not a lot of cushion on my shoulder and I'm used to tucking the butt into my chest more than my shoulder to help also. He was dropping the gun lower than I'm used to and asking me to place my cheek much further up the stock than I'm used to as well.

Anyone have any advice in these regards? I feel like it's possible I need to have my gun fitted to me at this point to help. I have an A400 xplor with a kickoff, but he had me use his gun with an extra 2" stock and it was slightly more comfortable... I was borderline embarrassed I couldn't continue... it's possible while he was adjusting me I took an off angle hit to my shoulder and it was downhill from there.

Appreciate anyone's input and similar experiences/how you got past this.

When Covid 19 came upon us, me and a shooting buddy couldn't compete for a couple of months. Both of us when we started shooting in May had the exact same issue with our shoulders and what we both realized was our mounts slightly drifted away from our necks. When we both realized this we brought our buttpads closer like before and we were fine. It's easy to forget the finer details on your mount when you stop shooting for a few months.

Both of us can easily shoot 300 rounds without any soreness when we are shooting every other day.

An extra 2" on the stock length seems a lot. Do you know what the measurement is for the LOP (Length of Pull)? A very common length would be anywhere between 14 1/4" to 14 3/4".

[Imageview]

A400 should be able to accommodate some spacers in the butt to get extra length of pull. A shooting vest with pad also never hurts.

[Featureless]

Installed one of these on my Winchester 1300 but haven't been to the range with it yet.

https://www.kicklitestocks.com/

[Tarmy]

An A400 is a great gun...and with a kick-off one of the softest guns I have ever shot. Not sure why you would be getting beat up by that gun.

I have a 75-100 limit for myself to avoid any residual effect as I am getting older and shoot several times a week. Shoot whatever you body tell you...after you get properly fitted...

[Newshooter]

An A400 is a great gun...and with a kick-off one of the softest guns I have ever shot. Not sure why you would be getting beat up by that gun.

My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine that gun kicking very hard with a target load. Some other suggestions:
-add some weight to the stock
-shoot 1 oz shells with less than 3 dram powder
-make sure gun fits

I used to get beat up shoot quite with an over/under until I had my gun fitted properly. Hopefully you can get back to where you were and enjoy it again.

[StandardFinn]

An extra 2" on the stock length seems a lot. Do you know what the measurement is for the LOP (Length of Pull)? A very common length would be anywhere between 14 1/4" to 14 3/4".

I believe he said it was around 15.5", so 2" was likely incorrect.

My thoughts exactly. I can't imagine that gun kicking very hard with a target load. Some other suggestions:
-add some weight to the stock
-shoot 1 oz shells with less than 3 dram powder
-make sure gun fits

I used to get beat up shoot quite with an over/under until I had my gun fitted properly. Hopefully you can get back to where you were and enjoy it again.

How do you add weight to the stock exactly? I was considering bringing it into a gunsmith to take a look at proper fitting for me, I am a long lanky dude - long arms and big hands. Just not a lot of meat on my frame so my mounting position could be very, well special

I was using 1 1/8 loads and he suggested I get some 1oz for next time also, so I'll do that - but never seemed to have an issue :\

Thanks everyone for the input..I drew up a crappy diagram of where I usually put my mount, and where he was having me put it and the exact spot on my shoulder where I was getting drilled. I want to practice proper technique, but if I'm doing okay with my current positioning am I just practicing bad habits by not changing?

It's likely I've been shooting wrong this entire time and I need to get used to this position, it just felt very awkward.

https://imgur.com/7Uuxbto

Green = Bruise
Red = new
Purple = Old

When our time was over I asked him as well how to deal with this, he said I probably drilled myself early on in our session with improper mount trying to make the adjustment and we just kept beating it up. He also showed me his shoulder and he had a bruise on his much meatier shoulder. For a guy that just won the Utah state championship, maybe it's just the name of the game? I don't mind taking a beating, I'm still young, but if I don't have to I'd like to avoid it obviously.

Thanks again!

[ceh383]

A proper mount is important for shooting comfort and reducing felt recoil.

That said, you have to shoot in a way that works for you. I've seen many very good shooters with odd looking mounts, but it works for them.
Here's my take on it. I have arthritis in my right shoulder which can, and does, cause severe pain sometimes. I have taken lessons from several different coaches. Everyone of them wanted to change something in my mount or move to the bird. I always figured they were the experts, so I did what they asked me to do. I would go out and practice what they preached. This always left me in agony, no bruises, but severe pain. I almost gave up on shooting.

Then earlier this year I had a lesson with Gebben Miles, look him up, great shooter, great coach. I went into it doing what I always did, what felt comfortable to me and would not lead to pain. Turns out he had no intention of changing my mount or move, he said it looked fine to him.

What he did do, work on hold points, look points and kill points. He also stressed the angle the gun took to the bird depending on the line of the target.
After two hours, I had NO PAIN at all. The biggest take aways from this:

1) I can shoot pain free.
2) My mount and move aren't as bad as some coaches made it seem.
3) Finding the right coach is important.
4) Gebben is a good guy and a great coach.

I'm not suggesting you go to Gebben, but that you try a few different coaches.

On a side note, if your coach is getting bruises, either his mount or gun fit is off. I've put 500 thru my O/U in a day, no bruising at all...And I'm no pro.

[fecalguns]

Personally I'm glad you chimed in ceh383. I will also add that I TOO believe that trying a few different coaches may help you OP with finding who may work with you better or maybe not.

[StandardFinn]

A proper mount is important for shooting comfort and reducing felt recoil.

That said, you have to shoot in a way that works for you. I've seen many very good shooters with odd looking mounts, but it works for them.
Here's my take on it. I have arthritis in my right shoulder which can, and does, cause severe pain sometimes. I have taken lessons from several different coaches. Everyone of them wanted to change something in my mount or move to the bird. I always figured they were the experts, so I did what they asked me to do. I would go out and practice what they preached. This always left me in agony, no bruises, but severe pain. I almost gave up on shooting.

Then earlier this year I had a lesson with Gebben Miles, look him up, great shooter, great coach. I went into it doing what I always did, what felt comfortable to me and would not lead to pain. Turns out he had no intention of changing my mount or move, he said it looked fine to him.

What he did do, work on hold points, look points and kill points. He also stressed the angle the gun took to the bird depending on the line of the target.
After two hours, I had NO PAIN at all. The biggest take aways from this:

1) I can shoot pain free.
2) My mount and move aren't as bad as some coaches made it seem.
3) Finding the right coach is important.
4) Gebben is a good guy and a great coach.

I'm not suggesting you go to Gebben, but that you try a few different coaches.

On a side note, if your coach is getting bruises, either his mount or gun fit is off. I've put 500 thru my O/U in a day, no bruising at all...And I'm no pro.

Personally I'm glad you chimed in ceh383. I will also add that I TOO believe that trying a few different coaches may help you OP with finding who may work with you better or maybe not.

Man - Ceh383, awesome advice. Thank you.

Agreed, having competed and trained as a golfer I understand that sometimes the things we as teachers think work best for people, are things they will never be comfortable doing and in the end aren't the end of the world. Comfortability is important and while technique is important, an perfectly uncomfortable technique won't last.

Funnily enough, I have seen Gebben compete before and I grew up in Tucson as well - I doubt I'll ever make it out to TX to take a course at his facility, but sounds like a good experience. I'll have to check out some other instructors in SoCal for sure.

Really appreciate the perspective!

[W.R.Buchanan]

15.5" is enough LOP for a man 6'6" or above. Too much for you.

If you are shooting target loads and getting beat up there is something drastically wrong.

The toe of the stock should be in the Pocket of your Shoulder. Period.

Your "Pocket" is the meaty place right below your Collar Bone and just to the Left of your Arm Joint.

You might need some help finding your pocket but it is there none the less and that's where the toe of the stock needs to be placed. Period.

With this accomplished your cheek weld should take care of the rest of the mounting and sight alignment. Stock adjustments can help acquiring your Natural Point of Aim, which with a shotgun should yield a perfect sight picture (IE: both beads lined up when you look) with closed eyes and then verified when you open your eyes. That's the easy way to test gun fit.

I have been thru this with heavier recoiling shotguns than yours, and I can shoot 250 rounds in a day with no problem. stock placement and cheek weld are the keys to pain free shooting.

But what I can tell you for sure is that if the toe of the stock is below your pocket you are going to be punished everytime you pull the trigger. Me doing this with 2 high based slugs sent me to my Chiropractor 3 times to get a rib reinstalled.

I have felt your pain.

Your gun is a relatively light recoiling gun. If You are getting the snot beat out of you, your instructor is not doing what he's being paid for and I don't care how good he is "Supposed "to be.

This is NOT SOMETHING YOU GET USED TO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry about your pain. Make a trip to Azusa to Pacific Sales and have them check your gun fit and show you how to mount the gun. Best trip up to LA you could make and it won't cost you anything but gas money.

Randy

[ysr_racer]

If your shotgun is beating you up, maybe ask some of the other gals shooting skeet for some advice?

[Newshooter]

How do you add weight to the stock exactly? I was considering bringing it into a gunsmith to take a look at proper fitting for me, I am a long lanky dude - long arms and big hands. Just not a lot of meat on my frame so my mounting position could be very, well special

I was using 1 1/8 loads and he suggested I get some 1oz for next time also, so I'll do that - but never seemed to have an issue :\

When our time was over I asked him as well how to deal with this, he said I probably drilled myself early on in our session with improper mount trying to make the adjustment and we just kept beating it up. He also showed me his shoulder and he had a bruise on his much meatier shoulder. For a guy that just won the Utah state championship, maybe it's just the name of the game? I don't mind taking a beating, I'm still young, but if I don't have to I'd like to avoid it obviously.

Thanks again!

Can't go wrong with having someone check out the fit of your gun. I would think a coach could tell you if the gun fit you or not. I have taken a couple clinics with some good shooters and the first thing they did was check my fit.

A coach with a bruise would make me nervous. I shoot 600 targets in a weekend and don't have any issues with bruising. The diagram you provided showed your old hold point similar to where I hold my gun. I can't imagine holding your gun that far out on your shoulder. I was always taught to pull the gun into the "pocket" created between your pectoral muscle and your arm.

After I typed that, I realized you have an A400 with a kickoff system. You shouldn't need to add weight to the stock. I know quite a few people that have added weight to over/under's to help with recoil or add mercury recoil reducer in the stock. That can help but not sure it would help with your gun.

You shouldn't have to "take a beating" to enjoy this sport. Having to deal with getting the crap kicked out of me when I shot would make me quit sooner than later.

Lots of good advice on this page. A different coach may be the best way to mitigate your issues.

[StandardFinn]

If your shotgun is beating you up, maybe ask some of the other gals shooting skeet for some advice?

The women in my life should have prepared me for the punishment I received this weekend, you're right lmfao.

Thanks Randy, great advice - I went to school at APU so I know the area well and it sounds like I need to pay a visit to the shop there. A buddy of mine at work tried to get me to check them out and mount a bunch of guns when I was shopping, hindsight right?

Thanks @newshooter - lots of awesome info in this thread for sure. Glad I asked the questions and really appreciate the community here. Elbows and side jabs included :P