what the limit?

[Hunter4life1990]

just wondering if there was some law that restricts the number of shot shells that your tube magazine can hold? is 8 the max for CA? this question is in regards to a remmy 870

[Quiet]

just wondering if there was some law that restricts the number of shot shells that your tube magazine can hold? is 8 the max for CA? this question is in regards to a remmy 870

10 rounds.

Unless it is a lever-action shotgun, then it can be more than 10 rounds. Depends on how long you want the barrel/tube.

You do need to limit to 3 rounds, if you are hunting.

[brasscoe]

10 rounds.

Unless it is a lever-action shotgun, then it can be more than 10 rounds. Depends on how long you want the barrel/tube.

You do need to limit to 3 rounds, if you are hunting.

Where does it say 10 rounds?

Shotguns
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or
vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

[lorax3]

Where does it say 10 rounds?


http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/forms/pdf/awguide.pdf

If you are going to use that PDF as reference it is on PDF Pg. 84 (or 74 if you look at the page number in the photo)

If you would prefer to use California Penal code it is in 12020 PC.

You are listing the definitions for an "assault weapon" per a shotgun. The ten round limit is not listed there as a separate PC sections governs magazine capacity.

[Quiet]

Where does it say 10 rounds?

Extending the magazine tube of a semi-auto shotgun or a pump-action shotgun to past 10 rounds would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

Lever-action shotguns are exempt from this.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

[brasscoe]

Extending the magazine tube of a semi-auto shotgun or a pump-action shotgun to past 10 rounds would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

Lever-action shotguns are exempt from this.

Penal Code 12020
(a) Any person in this state who does any of the following is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison:
(2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.
(c)(25) As used in this section, "large-capacity magazine" means any ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(A) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(B) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(C) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action firearm.

After Jan 1 2000 yes. The Saiga 12's were manufactured since then so it's a moot point, but I believe there were other trap guns modified to hold ~12 2.75" shells that were available prior to the ban. Also, someone who can legally own hi-caps, like law enforcement, could legally use a 20rnd drum on a Saiga-12 with a BB.

Also, what about those shorter 12GA 1.75" shells? If someone had a tube mag that could hold 8 rounds of 2.75" shells prior to 2000, it could also hold 11 rounds of 1.75" shells. This is not the same argument used for 9mm/.40 mags, as the caliber of the mag (tube mag in this case) and round is still 12ga whether it's a 1.75" or 3.5" shell.

My point was that there is no restriction on fixed magazine capacity for shotguns, unlike rifles and pistols which are limited to 10 rounds.

[sonicbuff]

My point was that there is no restriction on fixed magazine capacity for shotguns, unlike rifles and pistols which are limited to 10 rounds.

Is Saiga 12 a shotgun ? Or rifle ?

[luchador768]

[QUOTE=brasscoe;2477866]After Jan 1 2000 yes. The Saiga 12's were manufactured since then so it's a moot point, but I believe there were other trap guns modified to hold ~12 2.75" shells that were available prior to the ban. Also, someone who can legally own hi-caps, like law enforcement, could legally use a 20rnd drum on a Saiga-12 with a BB.

LE have to order the mags on Dept letterhead, and use them for duty, I believe. Not too many agencys use Saiga's so you might be setting yourself up for trouble. Also any mag over 10 rounds with a bullet button is a no no as well.

[Quiet]

Is Saiga 12 a shotgun ? Or rifle ?

The Izmash Saiga-12 is a shotgun.

[Quiet]

LE have to order the mags on Dept letterhead, and use them for duty, I believe. Not too many agencys use Saiga's so you might be setting yourself up for trouble. Also any mag over 10 rounds with a bullet button is a no no as well.

LEOs no longer need a department letterhead to purchase large capacity magazines.
All they need to do now is show their LE ID and the FFL dealer with a large capacity magazine permit selling the large capacity magazines, just makes a copy of the LEO's LE ID for their records.

Semi-auto magazine locked box/drum magazine fed shotguns can legally have a capacity greater than 10 rounds.

[Quiet]

After Jan 1 2000 yes. The Saiga 12's were manufactured since then so it's a moot point, but I believe there were other trap guns modified to hold ~12 2.75" shells that were available prior to the ban. Also, someone who can legally own hi-caps, like law enforcement, could legally use a 20rnd drum on a Saiga-12 with a BB.

Also, what about those shorter 12GA 1.75" shells? If someone had a tube mag that could hold 8 rounds of 2.75" shells prior to 2000, it could also hold 11 rounds of 1.75" shells. This is not the same argument used for 9mm/.40 mags, as the caliber of the mag (tube mag in this case) and round is still 12ga whether it's a 1.75" or 3.5" shell.

My point was that there is no restriction on fixed magazine capacity for shotguns, unlike rifles and pistols which are limited to 10 rounds.

The OP was asking about a tube fed pump-action shotgun (Remington Model 870), how did you equate this to a semi-auto maglocked shotgun (Izmash Saiga-12)?

The OP's Remington Model 870 holds 8 rounds, he can legally increase the capacity to 10 rounds.
Extending the capacity to greater than 10 rounds, would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

There is no law making a shotgun with a fixed capacity of greater than 10 rounds an assault weapon.
However, there is a law [PC 12020(a)(2)] making it illegal to increase the capacity of a tube fed semi-auto or pump-action shotgun to greater than 10 rounds.

Also, greater than 10 round magazines for the Saiga-12 started being produced in 2008, unless you're an exempt person (LEO, etc.) how did you explain owning one in CA?

[camsoup]

The OP's Remington Model 870 holds 8 rounds, he can legally increase the capacity to 10 rounds.
Extending the capacity to greater than 10 rounds, would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

This does make me wonder about the smaller 1.75" shells. The OP shotgun will hold 8 2.75" shells in stock configuration (Rem. 870 and Mossberg 590 fit will both hold this capacity), if you were to load it with the 1.75" shells, it should hold 12 shells....if that is the case would the person who loaded the shorter 1.75" shells to a capacity of 12 rounds just have manufactured, or cause to be manufactured a high capacity shotgun?

the way some CA PC is worded, never ceases to amaze me.

[akjunkie]

The OP was asking about a tube fed pump-action shotgun (Remington Model 870), how did you equate this to a semi-auto maglocked shotgun (Izmash Saiga-12)?

The OP's Remington Model 870 holds 8 rounds, he can legally increase the capacity to 10 rounds.
Extending the capacity to greater than 10 rounds, would be manufacturing a large capacity magazine.

There is no law making a shotgun with a fixed capacity of greater than 10 rounds an assault weapon.
However, there is a law [PC 12020(a)(2)] making it illegal to increase the capacity of a tube fed semi-auto or pump-action shotgun to greater than 10 rounds.

Also, greater than 10 round magazines for the Saiga-12 started being produced in 2008, unless you're an exempt person (LEO, etc.) how did you explain owning one in CA?

Hmm, this thread got me curious.

how bout this scenario. i acquired my "Hi Cap" Extended Mag tube pre Y2K. and i decide to install it on a 870 i purchased this week. this technically would be legal wouldnt it? since i purchased my "Hi Cap" pre Y2K.

[ke6guj]

This does make me wonder about the smaller 1.75" shells. The OP shotgun will hold 8 2.75" shells in stock configuration (Rem. 870 and Mossberg 590 fit will both hold this capacity), if you were to load it with the 1.75" shells, it should hold 12 shells....if that is the case would the person who loaded the shorter 1.75" shells to a capacity of 12 rounds just have manufactured, or cause to be manufactured a high capacity shotgun?

IIRC, that exact scenario was brought up in the Hunt case, but I don't recall the outcome of it.

[The Cable Guy]

I had always thought that the 10 round limit was in regards to non-tubular magazines.