Converted Saiga 12?

[joemama]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find anything on it. Could an already converted Saiga 12 be made featureless and legal in CA if it has a solid stock, monsterman grip, detachable mag, a muzzle break or thread cover, and be over 30"? The only thing I can find to make a Saiga 12 legal is to put a gas block in it and make it single shot.

[keith1911]

I'm sure this has been asked before but I couldn't find anything on it. Could an already converted Saiga 12 be made featureless and legal in CA if it has a solid stock, monsterman grip, detachable mag, a muzzle break or thread cover, and be over 30"? The only thing I can find to make a Saiga 12 legal is to put a gas block in it and make it single shot.

Don't think so because of the detachable mag. See this:

https://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

[joemama]

Don't think so because of the detachable mag. See this:

https://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

Ah ok thanks, I didn't know there was a flow chart for shotguns. So it looks like the only way to have a saiga 12 in CA is a single shot one. Would having a bullet button on the mag release make the setup in my op legal? fixed stock, monsterman grip, bullet button mag release and a muzzle break? Technically the mag would be locked in place but would that comply with the new laws?

[keith1911]

Ah ok thanks, I didn't know there was a flow chart for shotguns. So it looks like the only way to have a saiga 12 in CA is a single shot one. Would having a bullet button on the mag release make the setup in my op legal? fixed stock, monsterman grip, bullet button mag release and a muzzle break? Technically the mag would be locked in place but would that comply with the new laws?

I don't think so, but I'm not a lawyer. Think a dm shotgun needs to be single shot or mag locked (break the action open to remove).

[redline]

Don't think so because of the detachable mag. See this:

https://www.calguns.net/caawid/sgflowchart.pdf

Also not a lawyer. Step 11 asks if the shotgun is semi-automatic. Saiga 12 is no longer semi-automatic if the gas plug and/or puck is removed, or if a gas block is inserted. If not semi-automatic, follow "No" arrow to Legal.

[redline]

Ah ok thanks, I didn't know there was a flow chart for shotguns. So it looks like the only way to have a saiga 12 in CA is a single shot one. Would having a bullet button on the mag release make the setup in my op legal? fixed stock, monsterman grip, bullet button mag release and a muzzle break? Technically the mag would be locked in place but would that comply with the new laws?

Read the light green box in the lower right corner of the flowchart titled "*Detachable Magazines." It addresses your question about magazine locks.

The definition of fixed magazine differs between rifles and shotguns.

[Atlantic Firearms]

The only way to make the Saiga 12 Shotgun legal in CA with a detachable mag would be to disable the gas system and make it a single shot manual operation . Atlantic Firearms currently does this now with some of the Kalashnikov USA shotguns using the MagLatch gas puck .

[joemama]

Read the light green box in the lower right corner of the flowchart titled "*Detachable Magazines." It addresses your question about magazine locks.

The definition of fixed magazine differs between rifles and shotguns.

That's what I'm a little confused on. If there is a bullet button already on a saiga 12 then is it considered a non detachable magazine? Then wouldnt a monster man grip make it legal in that configuration or is the gas puck the only way to go?

[Quiet]

That's what I'm a little confused on. If there is a bullet button already on a saiga 12 then is it considered a non detachable magazine? Then wouldnt a monster man grip make it legal in that configuration or is the gas puck the only way to go?

CA assault weapons laws for shotguns are similar to but different than those for rifles and pistols.

A restricted feature on semi-auto shotguns is not having a fixed magazine. [PC 30515(a)(7) and 11 CCR 5471(a)]

Starting 01-01-2017, "bullet button" style devices are considered a type of magazine release and use of such device is no longer considered a fixed magazine. [PC 30515(b)]

A semi-auto shotgun not having a pistol grip does nothing to change the legality of it using detachable magazines.


Therefore, in order to be CA legal...

Option A. The Saiga-12 shotgun needs to be modified so that it is no longer semi-auto. Gas block is plugged, which makes the shotgun into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun and it can then legally utilize detachable magazines.

Option B. The Saiga-12 shotgun needs to have a 10 or less round magazine permanently attached (welded/epoxied/riveted) into the magazine well. Which allows the shotgun to legally remain being semi-auto.



Penal Code 30515
(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.
(b) For purposes of this section, “fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 1 Section 5460
The definitions of terms in section 5471 of this chapter shall apply to the identification of assault weapons pursuant to Penal Code section 30515.

California Code of Regulations Title 11 Division 5 Chapter 39 Article 1 Section 5471
(a) “Ability to accept a detachable magazine” means with respect to a semiautomatic shotgun, it does not have a fixed magazine.
(f) “Bullet-button” means a product requiring a tool to remove an ammunition feeding device or magazine by depressing a recessed button or lever shielded by a magazine lock. A bullet-button equipped fully functional semiautomatic firearm does not meet the fixed magazine definition under Penal Code section 30515(b).
(k) “Contained in” means that the magazine cannot be released from the firearm while the action is assembled. For AR-15 style firearms this means the magazine cannot be released from the firearm while the upper receiver and lower receiver are joined together.
(m) “Detachable magazine” means any ammunition feeding device that can be removed readily from the firearm without disassembly of the firearm action or use of a tool. A bullet or ammunition cartridge is considered a tool. An ammunition feeding device includes any belted or linked ammunition, but does not include clips, en bloc clips, or stripper clips that load cartridges into the magazine.
An AR-15 style firearm that has a bullet-button style magazine release with a magnet left on the bullet-button constitutes a detachable magazine. An AR-15 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, magazine catch spring and magazine release button) constitutes a detachable magazine. An AK-47 style firearm lacking a magazine catch assembly (magazine catch, spring and rivet/pin) constitutes a detachable magazine.
(n) “Disassembly of the firearm action” means the fire control assembly is detached from the action in such a way that the action has been interrupted and will not function. For example, disassembling the action on a two part receiver, like that on an AR-15 style firearm, would require the rear take down pin to be removed, the upper receiver lifted upwards and away from the lower receiver using the front pivot pin as the fulcrum, before the magazine may be removed.
(o) “Featureless” means a semiautomatic firearm (rifle, pistol, or shotgun) lacking the characteristics associated with that weapon, as listed in Penal Code section 30515.
(p) “Fixed magazine” means an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm in such a manner that the device cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
(w) “Permanently attached to” means the magazine is welded, epoxied, or riveted into the magazine well. A firearm with a magazine housed in a sealed magazine well and then welded, epoxied, or riveted into the sealed magazine well meets the definition of “permanently attached to”.

[Hanger22reefing]

I just got one shipped to me from Texas so yo can have a pistol grip with a fixed stock but and A detachable magazine but it would be a pump meaning the gas system will have a block to stop the piston from moving the shot so you would have to manually cock it back each time

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[HOTWHEELS1]

I made my VEPR 12 a fixed mag/non-detachable, but you have to remove the spring/bolt to load the magazine and then install them back to fire. When you reinstall the bolt, you will be HOT since the bolt will strip a round as it slides forward.

[Brown Guy]

Yes it can be legal with a maglatch gas plug