Can I Vang Comp my 23in Remchoke?

[isntzen]

Will the result be different for my REM choke than it would be for my 18 inch cylinder bore? Is there any downside to Van comping my barrels? I know I could call them but they are not open at this hour, and I was hoping for feedback from an independent shooter with first-hand experience.

[splithoof]

Depending on what a particular barrel is used for, you might first see if a load change achieves what you want before an expensive conversion. If for example you are looking to use buckshot, my experience has been that Hornady TAP from a few of my 18" Remington 870 Police barrels has been more than adequate, thus negating the need for porting out to twenty-five yards. Beyond that the ported barrels have an advantage, but not by much.
I think both Winchester and Federal also produce something similar, I would go that route first.

[hermosabeach]

what / how will you use the shotgun?

What are you trying to accomplish with slug like accuracy with OO buck?

I don't hunt with my HD gun so I don't need a vang size pattern...


So please let us know what you want to accomplish and maybe we can give you an awesome answer.

[DrewN]

Modern ammo is so much more consistent with it's patterns I'm not sure a Vang comp is worth the $$$$ anymore. It was a solution for crap ammo more than anything else.

[isntzen]

what / how will you use the shotgun?

What are you trying to accomplish with slug like accuracy with OO buck?

I don't hunt with my HD gun so I don't need a vang size pattern...

So please let us know what you want to accomplish and maybe we can give you an awesome answer.

So, looking at a cylinder bore 18 in HD Barrel, it could benefit from reduced rise and recoil. Smaller patterning may not be desirable.

For a 23 in REM choked multi-purpose Barrel, reduced rise and recoil would likewise be advantageous, and the utility of a smaller pattern indeterminate.

Vang claims their modifications provide reduced rise and recoil along with smaller patterns. Primary question: can they add comp holes to a REM choke barrel? And then, to what extent does their modification achieve each of the 3 claimed benefits? For instance, does their modification tighten the pattern so much that it will be undesirable on an HD Barrel? I think you can see why I am seeking independent opinions on this, as opposed to asking Vang.

I know these characteristics can be addressed/adjusted via ammo but I would prefer set ammo selection aside for now.

[DrewN]

The quality of Vang's work has never been in dispute as far as I know, but they aren't cheap and most of the shortcomings their mods were meant to address (in a patrol shotgun anyway) have been solved by the ammo companies. But, I'd totally have them work over an 870 for me if I had the disposable income, but it would be a "luxury" purchase. Like a Wilson I guess.

[boopiejones]

I am looking at getting the Vang Comp done on one of my 870 barrels. I have two basically identical barrels but one is cylinder bore and the other is threaded for chokes. Vang said it would be best for me to send in the cylinder bore barrel, but I never asked them why. I suspect that some of the advantages of Vang Comp are lost on a barrel with removable chokes.

[globalnomad]

Reducing recoil & rise can also be addressed/mitigated via technique:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fS1_nmSMGy0

[Thefeeder]

Will the result be different for my REM choke than it would be for my 18 inch cylinder bore? Is there any downside to Van comping my barrels? I know I could call them but they are not open at this hour, and I was hoping for feedback from an independent shooter with first-hand experience.

Pattern your choke tube barrel by installing an Improved Cylinder(IC) choke tube, then with a Modified choke tube, and again with a Full choke tube.......your results will tell.

I think you will be very pleased with one of the three and save a few bucks

[hermosabeach]

Vang backbores the barrel the full length

Forcing come is really lengthened

The entire barrel is internally reprofiled

With a threaded barrel, that portion would need to be chopped off

The method is the new choke. I have seen hans guns give a hand size pattern with oo at 25 yards

Great for a cop at the mall


To tight for my home

[W.R.Buchanan]

Hermosa Beach is the only one on this thread who actually got it right.

The Vang Comp Process lengthens the Forcing Cone.

They back bore the barrel IE: increase the ID. The reamer used has a 2" taper on the end back to .730 so there is a slight choke effect.

The barrel is ported with 31ea. 1/16th" dia. holes on either side of the Front Sight.

My M 500 patterns OO buck at 3" at 15 yards and 7" at 25 yards. And with Flight Control Wads it will do half that.

The process changes the recoil impulse dramatically and makes the gun so much easier to shoot it is well worth the cost which is $255, or you can get it down to around $200 if you have multiple barrels to send in.

The gun recoils strait back with little muzzle rise making follow up shots much easier.

You would only do this to a cylinder bore barrel, if the gun has a screw in choke it would be cut off and the barrel shortened.

Lots of Yay and Nay about this process here and most of it is BS. Hans Vang is THE Riot Gun Guru and has been to 30 + years. His shop has done thousands of these conversions and if it didn't work nobody would spend the money to do it.

It is definite must do if you are serious about your 870, M 500, or 590 as a real defensive shotgun.

Also if you are serious about using a Shotgun for HD use, you really need to go to a Front Sight Defensive Shotgun Class or more properly about 3 or 4 of them, so that you can really get the hang of operating a Shotgun in Tactical Situations. Lots to learn and I assure you that you won't get it at the local range or looking at videos on Youtube. You really need professional Training.

I've been to three FS Shotgun Classes so far and am starting to get the hang of it! it is the most fun of all the classes they offer and once you get a grasp on how much force you are wielding you'll be sold on the shotgun.

Randy

[isntzen]

Hermosa Beach is the only one on this thread who actually got it right.

The Vang Comp Process lengthens the Forcing Cone.

They back bore the barrel IE: increase the ID. The reamer used has a 2" taper on the end back to .730 so there is a slight choke effect.

The barrel is ported with 31ea. 1/16th" dia. holes on either side of the Front Sight.

My M 500 patterns OO buck at 3" at 15 yards and 7" at 25 yards. And with Flight Control Wads it will do half that.

The process changes the recoil impulse dramatically and makes the gun so much easier to shoot it is well worth the cost which is $255, or you can get it down to around $200 if you have multiple barrels to send in.

The gun recoils strait back with little muzzle rise making follow up shots much easier.

You would only do this to a cylinder bore barrel, if the gun has a screw in choke it would be cut off and the barrel shortened.

Lots of Yay and Nay about this process here and most of it is BS. Hans Vang is THE Riot Gun Guru and has been to 30 + years. His shop has done thousands of these conversions and if it didn't work nobody would spend the money to do it.

It is definite must do if you are serious about your 870, M 500, or 590 as a real defensive shotgun.

Also if you are serious about using a Shotgun for HD use, you really need to go to a Front Sight Defensive Shotgun Class or more properly about 3 or 4 of them, so that you can really get the hang of operating a Shotgun in Tactical Situations. Lots to learn and I assure you that you won't get it at the local range or looking at videos on Youtube. You really need professional Training.

I've been to three FS Shotgun Classes so far and am starting to get the hang of it! it is the most fun of all the classes they offer and once you get a grasp on how much force you are wielding you'll be sold on the shotgun.

Randy

Wow, thank you for all the information. Two of the barrels have REM choke, only one barrel is unthreaded cylinder bore configuration, and it is strictly for home defense. Not too sure about wanting a titer pattern for it, however I would certainly like to have it ported. I assume porting can be done as a standalone service?

[globalnomad]

It is definite must do if you are serious about your 870, M 500, or 590 as a real defensive shotgun.

Depends on the distances in question ... most average loads will spread about 1" for every yard of distance to target out of an open cylinder barrel.

If you intend to hole up or barricade yourself in a room & it's 5 - 8 yards across the room, then a spread of 5 - 8" out of an open cylinder barrel is likely, which seems like a good solution. In that scenario, I'd much prefer to have an open cylinder or improved cylinder barrel than a Vang Comp barrel.

If there is a scenario where distance to target is about 15 yards e.g. down a long corridor, then a 15" spread is probably more than desirable, so in that scenario a Federal Flight Control load that will halve the spread from 15" to about 8" would likely be a better option than an average load that spreads 1" per yard.

As you stated, your M500 patterns at 7" at 25 yards. That seems like a good option for spread at 25 yards, but how many home defense scenarios occur at 25 yards?

Maximum possible distance inside where I live is 9 yards, and I'd rather have an open or improved cylinder barrel than a Vang Comp barrel for that scenario.

You do make a good point about getting suitable training though.

[W.R.Buchanan]

They do just the porting if that's all you want however the porting makes almost no difference with out the lengthening of the forcing cone and back boring of the barrel. It is kind of a package deal.

The cylinder bore barrel is the one to Vang Comp. The advantage of it becomes obvious when you start shooting at Man sized targets.

My gun patterns #8 Birdshot into 7" at 15 yards. Without the treatment it would be 15"+ .

What this does for you is increase the payload density on a target at close range. example: The first shot at a freshly painted man target at 15 yards, if I shoot the head it COMPLETELY Removes all the paint from the head. Guns without the barrel work leave 50% of the paint on the target. IE: the pattern density is 50% of my gun.

The other major effect of the Vang Comp process is smoothing out the Recoil impulse. If you are only going to use the gun as strictly HD and never shoot it that much, then it is a waste.

When you go to a class and fire 250 rounds in two days, or 500 in 4 days, the benefit becomes real obvious, and you'll see it by looking in a mirror after a day of shooting. Without it your shoulder will be black and blue. With it, no problem, and you'll be ready for the next day.

The point of all this is,,, if the gun is beating you silly you will become afraid of it and shoot poorly.

These guns do kick and if you can't manage the recoil you won't be effective at shooting multiple drills designed to simulate combat scenarios. The whole purpose of the Vang Comp process is to make the gun work with you, not against you.

Randy

[W.R.Buchanan]

Global: The whole idea is to not have a wide spread. You want all the pellets on the target not in the general area of the target. A center mass hit with a 7" or less pattern is probably a fight ender. The same hit with a 15" pattern might not be, due to the disbursement of the pellets. If the guy is sideways to you his arm will shield his vitals. A 7" pattern or less will go right thru his arm. It is effectively a slug at 5-10 yards.

Nothing lives thru a slug.

With buckshot you are launching 9 .32 cal. pellets down range every time you pull the trigger. If all of them don't connect with that target you are still responsible for the loose ones.

Flight Control ammunition has been discontinued by Federal, the only stuff left is what is already out there, once it's gone there ain't no mo.

HOT TIP: If you find some, buy as much as you can afford. I have not seen any anywhere in my area.

Randy