Brenneke Bear slug vs Special Forces Penetrator

[CaliforniaCowboy]

So I was doing some last minute online ammo shopping and was on the Brenneke site and came across 2 rounds. One is kind of marketed as a dangerous game slug and the other as a special forces slug for penetrating glass and engine blocks. Here are the stats on the two

1. Black Magic Magnum (Bear Slug). 12ga 3" 1-3/8oz slug 1502fps 3014 ftlbs

2. Maximum Barrier Penetrator. 12ga 2-3/4" 1-3/8oz slug (hardened) 1650fps! 3545 ftlbs. (lead alloy)

First I see they are the exact same design and exact same weight. But the one out of the 2-3/4 shell is getting 150fps more than the 3" slug?

Also, seeing as when it comes to dangerous game like a bear, you want penetration, wouldn't the Special Forces Barrier penetrator round be a better choice for dangerous game? I am not sure if the Bear round is hardened as much as the SF round but I have seen youtube tests with it where it has been shot through all kinds of stuff and seems to keep its shape pretty well. I am wondering if they are just the exact same slug, both of the same alloy and just marketed differently? and why is the second round at same weight getting 150fps more than the one out of the 3" shell?

[Thanatos2203]

With something like a bear you do want expansion and penetration. Animals with high levels of body fat can sometimes survive hits because the fat prevents the wound from bleeding out as it otherwise would.

I think for the most part you are point here though. Pretty sure the Black Magic Magnum is their original baby and the Barrier Penetrator was just a tweaked version of that for the "military and law enforcement specifications."

I think either would be serviceable bear medicine, the penetrator has the advantage of kinetic energy at the muzzle. My guess is the Black Magic might be a little easier to keep on target for follow up shots on a charging bear because you don't need that extra power at the muzzle for the softer target. The difference being pretty minimal and this is all my speculation.

[Mark77]

A lot of people seem to be recommending Black Magic. I wonder how the Ddupleks steel slugs would perform.

[elSquid]

I am not sure if the Bear round is hardened as much as the SF round but I have seen youtube tests with it where it has been shot through all kinds of stuff and seems to keep its shape pretty well. I am wondering if they are just the exact same slug, both of the same alloy and just marketed differently? and why is the second round at same weight getting 150fps more than the one out of the 3" shell?

My guess - I don't know for certain - is that the SF round is loaded hotter/higher pressure as Brenneke probably assumes that LEO/mil won't be shooting the slug through Grandpa's old hand-me-down duck gun.

-- Michael

[CaliforniaCowboy]

A lot of people seem to be recommending Black Magic. I wonder how the Ddupleks steel slugs would perform.

I was looking at those too, I have seen them shot and they seem to really not deform at all. The standard ones are pretty weak compaired to the Bernnake stuff but they do have a Magnum version. Same slug but gets it moving up to 1,573 fps for 2,717 ftlbs at the muzzle. But the penetrators are 1/4oz heavier and moving at more than 200fps faster.

[Mark77]

I was looking at those too, I have seen them shot and they seem to really not deform at all. The standard ones are pretty weak compaired to the Bernnake stuff but they do have a Magnum version. Same slug but gets it moving up to 1,573 fps for 2,717 ftlbs at the muzzle. But the penetrators are 1/4oz heavier and moving at more than 200fps faster.

The one I linked (Monolit 32) is the more powerful version. The manufacturer states that it propels a 1 1/8 oz slug at 1410 fps (even though in the video, the narrator states that his was 1590 fps). I don't think it's 3" (marketed as 2 3/4"), but it is a bit longer than standard 2 3/4" shells. The Monolit 28 would be the weaker version, propelling a 1 oz slug at 1460 fps. The Brenneke Black Magic propels a 1 3/8 oz slug at 1502 fps according to the manufacturer, so it is more powerful on paper. However, I wonder what kind of factor the steel vs lead aspect would play. For what it's worth, the Black Magic costs more than a dollar more per round than the Monolit 32.

[W.R.Buchanan]

Have any of you actually fired any of the these slugs?

Do you have any idea what the recoil is like fired from a lightweight shotgun like a Rem 870 or M500?

I have fired exactly 2 Federal 1 oz Maximum Slugs running at 1610 fps which are similar to what you are talking about above.

The first one knocked the steel target I was shooting at end over end and made Tears Squirt out of my eyes.! The second ended my shooting for that day and resulted in 3 trips to my chiropractor to have one of my Ribs put back in its socket that got knocked out by the first shot.

These heavy slugs are nothing to make light of. They are formidable projectiles. The new low recoil slugs will kill anything in NA as well as many small Cars. They are only running at 1300 fps. These heavy loads are real Arse Kickers.,,, on both ends.

There is a substantial difference between a 1 3/8 oz slug at 1650 fps and a 1 oz slug at 1300 fps. Like double the recoil!

If you haven't fired ammunition like this I advise you to try one or two to see if you are up to it. 99% of casual shooters are not and will be very surprised at the results.

Keep in mind that in order to actually take advantage of these heavy loads that you must actually hit the target. You might hit the first time but I doubt you will hit with the second shot as the first will knock the snot out of you.

Those heavy slugs (550 gr) have about the same recoil as a .416 Rigby in a gun that weighs half as much as a Rigby Rifle.

Be prepared for a learning experience!

Randy

[deckhandmike]

Those ddupleks don’t fly straight for crap out of my 870. Can’t even get on target at 50’.

[Wren1911]

Have any of you actually fired any of the these slugs?

Do you have any idea what the recoil is like fired from a lightweight shotgun like a Rem 870 or M500?

I have fired exactly 2 Federal 1 oz Maximum Slugs running at 1610 fps which are similar to what you are talking about above.

The first one knocked the steel target I was shooting at end over end and made Tears Squirt out of my eyes.! The second ended my shooting for that day and resulted in 3 trips to my chiropractor to have one of my Ribs put back in its socket that got knocked out by the first shot.

These heavy slugs are nothing to make light of. They are formidable projectiles. The new low recoil slugs will kill anything in NA as well as many small Cars. They are only running at 1300 fps. These heavy loads are real Arse Kickers.,,, on both ends.

There is a substantial difference between a 1 3/8 oz slug at 1650 fps and a 1 oz slug at 1300 fps. Like double the recoil!

If you haven't fired ammunition like this I advise you to try one or two to see if you are up to it. 99% of casual shooters are not and will be very surprised at the results.

Keep in mind that in order to actually take advantage of these heavy loads that you must actually hit the target. You might hit the first time but I doubt you will hit with the second shot as the first will knock the snot out of you.

Those heavy slugs (550 gr) have about the same recoil as a .416 Rigby in a gun that weighs half as much as a Rigby Rifle.

Be prepared for a learning experience!

Randy

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1002087836/lightfield-commander-ids-plus-ammunition-12-gauge-3-1-2-1-3-8-oz-sabot-slug-box-of-5

[deckhandmike]

Thanks for the warning on that W.R. I would of needlessly tried those and most likely regretted it.

[7.62user]

Wish I didn't see this. Can Benelli m1 handle these?

[CaliforniaCowboy]

No, but now I want to give it a go and see if I am man enough.

[Sandro]

No, but now I want to give it a go and see if I am man enough.

You want to say stupid enough?
Man is usually not a synonym of stupid, let's see if you are smart enough.

[Bt Doctur]

I think you will find 1 Oz slugs in normal loading sufficient to kill anything in North America

[Dogbite]

Have any of you actually fired any of the these slugs?

Do you have any idea what the recoil is like fired from a lightweight shotgun like a Rem 870 or M500?

I have fired exactly 2 Federal 1 oz Maximum Slugs running at 1610 fps which are similar to what you are talking about above.

The first one knocked the steel target I was shooting at end over end and made Tears Squirt out of my eyes.! The second ended my shooting for that day and resulted in 3 trips to my chiropractor to have one of my Ribs put back in its socket that got knocked out by the first shot.

These heavy slugs are nothing to make light of. They are formidable projectiles. The new low recoil slugs will kill anything in NA as well as many small Cars. They are only running at 1300 fps. These heavy loads are real Arse Kickers.,,, on both ends.

There is a substantial difference between a 1 3/8 oz slug at 1650 fps and a 1 oz slug at 1300 fps. Like double the recoil!

If you haven't fired ammunition like this I advise you to try one or two to see if you are up to it. 99% of casual shooters are not and will be very surprised at the results.

Keep in mind that in order to actually take advantage of these heavy loads that you must actually hit the target. You might hit the first time but I doubt you will hit with the second shot as the first will knock the snot out of you.

Those heavy slugs (550 gr) have about the same recoil as a .416 Rigby in a gun that weighs half as much as a Rigby Rifle.

Be prepared for a learning experience!

Randy

I think you will find 1 Oz slugs in normal loading sufficient to kill anything in North America

I shoot Winchester 2 3/4" Super X Slugs 1oz - 1600FPS out of my Remington 870 21" barrel in local 3 gun shoots when I can find time to make it to one.
I purchased a 150 at $0.37 each. 10 - 15 round boxes. They group well at 100 yards and put huge a dent in 1/4" steel plate at 100 yards. Trauma alone though a ballistic vest should stop your problem relatively quickly. Recoils isn't bad and not much less than a 1.5oz load of similar velocity. Shot from seated position or off a barricade for farther shots. A proper cheek weld and shouldering of your tool is mandatory or you could get a black eye or bused cheek and shoulder.
Slugs are not skeet loads.
I used a similar load when I fished in the outskirts of alaska. Accessible by very, very long walks or bush plane only during non winter months. (In winter you just snowmobile up the rivers)
Slugs and buckshot in a 14" barreled 870 I kept slung over my back while I fished. Buck shot first round hopping to get something on target and slugs the rest. I did have a few encounters with brown bears but none of them ever wanted me for dinner and I never had to discharged my tool.
Moose are much more of a concern than bears. Many problem from those critters.