New for 2017: Fostech Origin 12 SBV

[TOMBSTONE]

Check this out for a smooth-bore firearm in 12 gauge; firearm not shotgun . https://youtu.be/r7krlrcGtms

[terry4130]

That's awesome. What's the legalities on it?

[TOMBSTONE]

That's awesome. What's the legalities on it?

Fostech is bringing an interesting variant of their 12 gauge Origin 12 shotgun to market. The Origin 12 SBV is along the lines of their NFA Short Barrel Shotguns with a 10 inch barrel, but it isn’t an NFA item at all. Because it has a smooth bore, it isn’t a handgun either. It is simply classified as a firearm, even with a arm stabilizing brace installed. The brace still cannot be shouldered because the complaint letter from ATF on the brace regards the actual use on any firearm it is attached to. MSRP is $2,850 for the Nickel Internal version, and 2,750 for the Hard Black version. Magazines pictured are standard 5 round magazines, but the variant can accept any magazine or drum that the Origin 12 line is available with. To be NFA compliant in Ca. you would have to register as a pistol , pin the arm-brace for 26 " overall length and remove the forward grip.

[unusedusername]

Unfortunately, the state of California has its own SBS laws seperate from the feds. This would be a SBR in California because it fires a fixed shotgun shell and the barrel is too short. It's the same problem as the judge handgun.

You might be able to AOW it to get around that, at least that works for the judge handgun.

It's too bad because this looks like it could be fun.

[Q]

That **** is weak.

http://gungeekfrag.tumblr.com/post/80828761624/civilian-import-version-of-ks-23-4-bore-shotgun

This is a shotgun. I wonder how many there are here.

[Quiet]

Check this out for a smooth-bore firearm in 12 gauge; firearm not shotgun . https://youtu.be/r7krlrcGtms

That's awesome. What's the legalities on it?

Fostech is bringing an interesting variant of their 12 gauge Origin 12 shotgun to market. The Origin 12 SBV is along the lines of their NFA Short Barrel Shotguns with a 10 inch barrel, but it isn’t an NFA item at all. Because it has a smooth bore, it isn’t a handgun either. It is simply classified as a firearm, even with a arm stabilizing brace installed. The brace still cannot be shouldered because the complaint letter from ATF on the brace regards the actual use on any firearm it is attached to. MSRP is $2,850 for the Nickel Internal version, and 2,750 for the Hard Black version. Magazines pictured are standard 5 round magazines, but the variant can accept any magazine or drum that the Origin 12 line is available with. To be NFA compliant in Ca. you would have to register as a pistol , pin the arm-brace for 26 " overall length and remove the forward grip.

Under Federal laws/regulations...

The Fostech Origin 12 SBV is a Title 1 Other.


Under CA laws/regulations...

The Fostech Origin 12 SBV is a "handgun" and a SBS.

Because it is a firearm with a less than 16" barrel length, it meets CA's definition of a "handgun". [PC 16530(a)]

Therefore, CA assault weapons laws for handguns and CA unsafe handgun laws applies to it.

Because it is semi-auto and accepts detachable magazines:
1. And has a threaded barrel, it meets CA definition of an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(A)]
2. And has a second handgrip, it meets CA definition of an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(B)]
3. And has a barrel shroud, it meets CA definition of an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(C)]
4. And the magazine is located outside of the pistol's grip, it meets CA definition of an assault weapon. [PC 30515(a)(4)(D)]

Because it is not listed on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale and does not have any CA mandated safety requirements, it meets CA definition of an unsafe handgun. [PC 31910(b)]
Which means it can only be transferred by a CA FFL dealer via exemption (LEO sale, DWP transfer, etc).

CA laws allows "handguns" to also be classified as SBR/SBS, if the firearm meets CA definition of a SBR/SBS. [PC 16530(b)]

Because it is a firearm that shoots shotgun shells and has a barrel length of less than 18", it meets CA definition of a SBS. [PC 17180(a)]

In CA, a SBS can only be legally acquired/possessed by Gov/Mil/LE agency or a person with a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit (DWP) for a SBS.

In order to obtain a valid DWP, you need to be a FFL/SOT and have a good cause for issuance.

Per CA laws, there are only two valid good causes for issuance for a DWP for SBR/SBS: [PC 33300(a)]
1. To import/make/transfer to Gov/Mil/LE agencies. [PC 33300(b)(2)]
2. For use as a prop in the entertainment industry (movie/tv). [PC 33300(b)(1)]

In addition to paying an annual fee to maintain the DWP, the DWP holder is subject to annual compliance inspection audits.

All dangerous weapons in the DWP holder's inventory needs to be registered with CA DOJ.
All locations where the dangerous weapons will be stored needs to be registered with CA DOJ.
All vehicles that will be used to transport the dangerous weapons needs to be registered with CA DOJ.

Storing in a non-registered location and/or transporting in a non-registered vehicle is grounds for permit revocation and having the entire inventory confiscated.
Using the dangerous weapon beyond the scope of the good cause for issuance of the permit is grounds for permit revocation and having the entire inventory confiscated.
^Examples of use beyond the scope... self-defense, target shooting.


Therefore, in order to legally possess a Fostech Origin 12 SBV in CA:
1. You must be a FFL/SOT.
2. You must have a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBS.
3. You must have a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for an AW.
4. The firearm must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
5. Every location where the firearm will be stored must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
6. Every vehicle that will be used to transport the firearm must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
7. All locations and vehicles must have compliant storage capabilities for the firearm.
8. The firearm can only be used within the scope of the good cause of your Dangerous Weapons Permits and you must submit annual usage reports to CA DOJ BOF.
9. You will be subject to annual inspection audits by CA DOJ BOF.
10. You must pay annual fees for your Dangerous Weapons Permits in order to maintain legal possession of it in CA.

[Quiet]

Unfortunately, the state of California has its own SBS laws seperate from the feds. This would be a SBS in California because it fires a fixed shotgun shell and the barrel is too short. It's the same problem as the judge handgun.

You might be able to AOW it to get around that, at least that works for the judge handgun.

It's too bad because this looks like it could be fun.

If this was made into a Title 2 AOW.

CA would still consider it an assault weapon and an unsafe handgun.

Therefore, in order to legally possess it as an AOW in CA:
1. You must be a FFL/SOT.
2. You must have a valid CA DOJ Dangerous Weapons Permit for an AW.
3. The firearm must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
4. Every location where the firearm will be stored must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
5. Every vehicle that will be used to transport the firearm must be registered with CA DOJ BOF.
6. All locations and vehicles must have compliant storage capabilities for the firearm.
7. The firearm can only be used within the scope of the good cause of your Dangerous Weapons Permits and you must submit annual usage reports to CA DOJ BOF.
8. You will be subject to annual inspection audits by CA DOJ BOF.
9. You must pay annual fees for your Dangerous Weapons Permits in order to maintain legal possession of it in CA.

[TOMBSTONE]

AOW = Any other Weapon, stands for unusual stuff that doesn't fit into the common catagories.
SBS/SBR = Short barreled Shotgun/Rifle. Shotguns and rifles with barrels under 18" for shotguns and 16" for rifles, or with an overal length under 26". SOT= special occupational tax and refers to the tax due upon transfers of items restricted by the NFA ( Generally $200 except for AOWs which have a tax of only $5)