Saiga 12 legal?

[boalgf]

Hello all,

I was planning on selling my unconverted Saiga-12. I have read up on the law changes and can't decide what to believe. Turners will not do it. I spoke with Ammo Bros and they told me they "might" DROS it, if it was featureless, but I didn't think that mattered in regards to shotguns. If they do the DROS, am I safe, or will it get kicked back? Are there any FFL's that will definitely do this type of PPT?

After reading the information below, I feel like transferring them should be legal. That doesn't mean much if I can't get an FFL to do the transfer though.

DOES THIS NEW LAW CHANGE APPLY TO SEMIAUTO SHOTGUNS w/"BULLET BUTTON" MAG. LOCKS?

NO. The changes to SB23 definitions apply specifically in relation to "semiauto centerfire rifles"
& "semiauto pistols" - but not shotguuns.

The former two AW sub-definitions now include mention of "fixed magazines" - while the latter shotgun-
based statutory AW definition still is unchanged and still uses term "detachable magazine".

Changes to the shotgun matter via DOJ regulation attempts are "underground regulation" clearly extending
legislative intent of the statute, and would be readily challengeable in court and/or Office of Administrative
Law. ("Expresio unius").

Note that Saiga-type semiauto SB23 shotguns with BulletButton maglocks are statutorily not "new AWs" even
in 2017. However, do note that law enforcement - historically with minimal correct competence in CA gun law
- may incorrectly think that ALL BulletButton-style maglocked firearms are AWs when in fact the new restrictions
apply to rifles and pistols only and not shotguns.


Any info will be appreciated. Here is a photo of the Shotgun.

[rlewpolar]

My FFL would not transfer a Vepr 12 and he is usually very accommodating. Apparently the new regs that just came out require all shotguns in 2017 to have a fixed mag [emoji31]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Quiet]

Unknown until CA DOJ regulations get finalized.

Under the regulations that they have submitted, it would be illegal to import/make/offer to sell/transfer it while in CA.

Because of these new unfinalized regulations, the majority of CA FFL dealers are currently unwilling to import/transfer a semi-auto shotgun with a "bullet button" style maglock.
^They are not willing to risk their livelihood (FFL) on transferring a possible assault weapon.

If you modified it so that it is no longer semi-auto, then it would be legal to transfer in CA.
^This can be done by removing the gas-piston, which will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun
^As a manually operated shotgun it can legally use detachable magazines and have a pistol grip with a folding/extending shoulder stock.


11 CCR 5471
Explanation of Terms Related to Assault Weapons Designation.
For purpose of Penal Code section 30515 and this Chapter the following definitions shall apply:
(a) "Ability to accept a detachable magazine" means with respect to a semiautomatic shotgun, it does not have a fixed magazine.
(pp) "Those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed for the firearm with the use of a tool" means functional semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns with bullet-button style magazine releases and one or more features defined in Penal Code 30515 and these regulations. These weapons do not have a fixed magazine.

[supermario]

So as long as the gas system is disabled I should be good to transfer correct. This is exactly what I wanted to do. It just seems that most FFL are still unwilling to transfer.
I know they made that new fixed mag lock for AK but It would be nice to see something for the Saiga 12s. There a ton of them out there.

Unknown until CA DOJ regulations get finalized.

Under the regulations that they have submitted, it would be illegal to import/make/offer to sell/transfer it while in CA.

Because of these new unfinalized regulations, the majority of CA FFL dealers are currently unwilling to import/transfer a semi-auto shotgun with a "bullet button" style maglock.
^They are not willing to risk their livelihood (FFL) on transferring a possible assault weapon.

If you modified it so that it is no longer semi-auto, then it would be legal to transfer in CA.
^This can be done by removing the gas-piston, which will make it into a manually operated (straight pull bolt-action) shotgun
^As a manually operated shotgun it can legally use detachable magazines and have a pistol grip with a folding/extending shoulder stock.


11 CCR 5471
Explanation of Terms Related to Assault Weapons Designation.
For purpose of Penal Code section 30515 and this Chapter the following definitions shall apply:
(a) "Ability to accept a detachable magazine" means with respect to a semiautomatic shotgun, it does not have a fixed magazine.
(pp) "Those weapons with an ammunition feeding device that can be readily removed for the firearm with the use of a tool" means functional semiautomatic rifles, pistols, and shotguns with bullet-button style magazine releases and one or more features defined in Penal Code 30515 and these regulations. These weapons do not have a fixed magazine.