the Ammo or the gun??? Please help

[Sashaalexander]

First i thought it was the ammo, then when i recalled the chain of events i have a lite doubt. maybe you guys had same experiance

first 3-4 rounds were OK.
next 2-3 FTE.
then all the rest were case/shell separation. the most interesting thing, the shell separated but the cramp did not open. Also, the base of the plastic cylinder is partially melted at the base. I do not know if you can see it on the pix.

I did not have other ammo to shoot it afterwards but before, 25 rounds of target load Remington and 25 of heavy dove loads rem were OK

[MJB]

What are those shells that were bad?

[Sashaalexander]

Some more pictures

[Sashaalexander]

Win superX xpert 2.3/4 1325 1Oz 6 shot

[MJB]

Those shells suck the only win ammo to shoot is the AA

[Thefeeder]

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Did the hulls fly out of the barrel? or stuck in the chamber? Hull seperation is found in reloads that have had low quality hulls reloaded to many times. I've had it happen with reloaded Cheddite hulls

Never heard of factory ammo doing this. And the crimps not opening is very strange.

The only way I can see the damage happening is the entire hull, wad and shot shooting out as one unit...and air friction pushing the pedals of the crimp back and buldging the front of the hull.

So what did you see, hear and did the shell stay in the gun?????

I would say its the shells and sending them back to Winchester with the pics is what you should do

[Sashaalexander]

the hull was partially sticking out of the chamber. The load still hit the target which is very surprising considering that the crimps were partially closed.

The report was usual. At least i did not notice any difference

Also, please note, there are 2 symmetrical notches on the hull. and the separation is very clean, like it was cut.

I just disasembled the gun. The piston was hardly moving because of all this gunk. I cleaned it before the hunt. 50-60 rounds after cleaning. It might be results of not full explosion or maybe the cause of the problem

[MJB]

The powder they use in those is really dirty and no doubt it doesn't all burn

[Sashaalexander]

I used this last year with no problem.
It started after 3rd round. How dirty can it be to foul the gun in 3 shots?

[MJB]

I would say this was a bad batch of ammo worse then their normal. It could of gotten wet at one point

[Thefeeder]

the hull was partially sticking out of the chamber. The load still hit the target which is very surprising considering that the crimps were partially closed.

The report was usual. At least i did not notice any difference

Also, please note, there are 2 symmetrical notches on the hull. and the separation is very clean, like it was cut.

I just disasembled the gun. The piston was hardly moving because of all this gunk. I cleaned it before the hunt. 50-60 rounds after cleaning. It might be results of not full explosion or maybe the cause of the problem

The clean separation is expected. The shells are constructed by crimping the base to the plactic tube...these are known as two piece hulls. Old Win AA and Rem STS are known as one piece hulls...the hull is one solid piece with the base crimped to the solid piece.

The notches are likely the spot where the hull tube is fixed to the base

The hull still remaining in the gun suggests two possible scenarios (or at least the only two I can think of)
1) the shell stuck in the chamber and the ejector pulled the base off, does happen, but the crimps are folded backwards and the top of the shell is bulged....so
#2, is there any possible way that the gas used to work the action is leaking back into the barrel/ chamber while the shot and wad are not yet out the barrel??? Seems unlikely but!

There has to be a backward force folding the crimps back into the shell and bludging it

[Sashaalexander]

You gave me the great idea and i think it is right.
It is exactly what you say "the gas used to work the action is leaking back into the barrel/ chamber while the shot and wad are not yet out the barrel"..."There is a backward force folding the crimps back into the shell"

As i say, because of the gunk the career did not move freely, so what most likely happened the bolt did not go back freely-fast enough, so, when the shell was partially out but not enough to eject, the pressure was exploding the hull, and as soon as there was escape for gases, they were bending the petals back.

I think something is wrong with this particular box of ammo which could cause the gun to almost cease which in its turn caused the shell separation.

Can it be too much of oil on the magazine tube which burned and added to the problem? I usually oil it and then wipe it out with my hand to leave only thin film as i do with all my guns. maybe this gun is too sensitive and i need to wipe it out completely?

[pennstater]

Curious. What is the shotgun you were using?

[Sashaalexander]

I would say this was a bad batch of ammo worse then their normal. It could of gotten wet at one point

Apparently you were 100% right.
Today, sparkling clean gun, 1st round separated, second OK, 3rd and 4th separated.
Took same ammo from another batch. Shoots OK. Used the whole box. Some for hunting and when got limit just to check how clean it is. after 25 rounds the gun was clean as it should be after 25 rounds.

[JagerDog]

I've shot a few tubes off, but never had a crimp stay like that.

When I have shot the tube off it exited the barrel, not partial ejection. That suggests the seperation is occuring during extraction.

Though the Universal hull is one of the worst that's a VERY high failure rate.