Shotgun Reccomendations?

[glock_this]

KelTech KSG. "Some" can hate on them all they want but I have put hundreds of rounds - of various brands & sizes like the Aguila mini shells - and had ZERO issues. Light, small, low recoil, 2 mag tubes for high round count, railed, they are fantastic and far better than I ever hoped. I have videos showing perfect accuracy on 10" plates at 75 or so yards ping ping ping. Just rack firmly and with a consistent stroke - don't be a yahoo and try to stupidly rapid fire fast and with hard stroke - and all is perfect. I haven't - and likely won't - shoot my 500 after getting the KSG.

[Irish-Dannyboy]

All good points thanks for the insight. The moss 500 combo looks and sounds like a good choice or if I really want semi-auto the 930 I guess if that was a deciding factor.

What exactly is a BAFTE approval and what guns become harder to acquire and why? Thanks

[L84CABO]

KelTech KSG. "Some" can hate on them all they want but I have put hundreds of rounds - of various brands & sizes like the Aguila mini shells - and had ZERO issues. Light, small, low recoil, 2 mag tubes for high round count, railed, they are fantastic and far better than I ever hoped. I have videos showing perfect accuracy on 10" plates at 75 or so yards ping ping ping. Just rack firmly and with a consistent stroke - don't be a yahoo and try to stupidly rapid fire fast and with hard stroke - and all is perfect. I haven't - and likely won't - shoot my 500 after getting the KSG.

The thing with the KSG's is that there really do seem to be good ones and bad ones out there. It really does seem to be the luck of the draw. As long as you're prepared for this then buy at will.

On another note, do you want to bet your life on a gun that has to be cycled in just the right way? Do you think you might "hard stroke" the gun under stress...like when you're being shot at?

And I'm just thinking out loud here. I really have no dog in this fight as I prefer semi autos for home defense.

[Bull Elk]

I can't tell if you're serious. If you enjoyed shooting a shotgun like that then pretty much any shotgun with a stock will blow you away.

Home defense and target/hunting/trap/skeet/bird shotguns are two different animals. Barrel length and barrel choke is the main differences. Home defense shotguns are usually designed to shoot, bird shot, buckshot and slugs, most will take 2 3/4 and 3" shells. Longer barrel shotguns normally have a choke to get a tighter shot pattern at a longer distance.

If you want something that won't really break the bank but is still a good shotgun get a Mossberg Combo 12g. When I say the Combo shotgun I mean a pump action that comes with a short and long barrel. It's easy to change between the short barrel that's suitable for home defense and the longer barrel. That way you get the best of both worlds.

You could also go with a Remington 870, the express versions are cheaper and sold at most big box sporting goods stores. I believe Remington has a Combo option out there too. One thing to look out for with the express models is the chambers isn't as forgiving as some of the higher end 870's. Some of the express models need a little chamber work to get that extra reliability. In my experience I've found that the cheaper Mossberg's function a little better then the cheaper 870's especially for newer shooters who tend to short stroke the pump.

What he said.

[Ducky's Dad]

I was hunting with a couple of kids last week and one of them managed to short-stroke a Benelli Nova 20, jammed a spent hull halfway out of the chamber and a live round on the lifter. Only way to fix it was to find a drift and pop out the trigger assy. Had never seen that with a Nova, but I guess it is possible.

[Thefeeder]

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First shotgun: 12 or 20ga, field/sport stock, 26-28" barrel with interchangable choke tubes.

[Irish-Dannyboy]

Does the combo shotgun with interchangeable barrels fall into title 2 SBS or AOW ?

[Quiet]

What exactly is a BAFTE approval and what guns become harder to acquire and why? Thanks

National Firearms Act of 1934 created two categories of firearms, Title 1 firearms and Title 2 firearms.
Title 1 firearms = handgun, rifle, shotgun, other
Title 2 firearms = AOW, DD, MG, NS, SBR, SBS

A shotgun with a less than 18" barrel length and a less than 26" overall length is a Title 2 SBS.
A smoothbore handgun with a barrel length of less than 18", a less than 26" overall length, and does not have a shoulder stock is a Title 2 AOW.

In order to legally acquire a Title 2 firearm, you need BATFE approval.
Which involved submitting a Form 1 or Form 4 with a special tax payment to BATFE.
The Feds then process your application and perform a background check on you (can take anywhere from 3 weeks to 9 months).
If you are applying as an individual, you are also required to get the CLEO (sheriff or police chief) of your city/county to sign off on your paperwork.

In addition, CA requires a Dangerous Weapons Permit in order to legally own/possess certain Title 2 firearms (DD, MG, SBR, SBS) in CA.
So, prior to submitting to BATFE, you are required to obtain a Dangerous Weapons Permit from CA DOJ, which requires a "good cause".
There are only two viable "good causes" for acquiring a Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBR/SBS in CA:
1. For use with blanks in the movie/tv industry.
2. For making/selling/loaning to a Gov/Mil/LE agency.
If issued a Dangerous Weapons Permit, you will then need to register every location where the dangerous weapon will be stored and every vehicle that will transport the dangerous weapon.
In addition, you will be subject to annual inspection audits to ensure the dangerous weapon is properly secured and it is not being used beyond the scope of the "good cause". If the dangerous weapon is being used beyond the scope of the "good cause", then that is grounds to have your Dangerous Weapons Permit revoked and the dangerous weapon confiscated.

So, in CA to acquire a SBS...
1. You pay for the SBS.
2. You apply to CA DOJ BOF for a Dangerous Weapons Permit for a SBS.
3. Once approved, you apply to BATFE.
4. Once approved, the FFL/SOT dealer that sold you the SBS can then legally transfer the SBS to you.
5. During the 10 day waiting period; you will need to register it, the locations it will be stored, and the vehicles that will transport it with CA DOJ.
6. After you acquire it, you can only use it within the scope of your "good cause".
If you use it beyond that scope (for example... in self defense), then the CA DOJ can legally confiscate it.

[Quiet]

Does the combo shotgun with interchangeable barrels fall into title 2 SBS or AOW ?

No, because the barrels with be longer than 18" in length.

[Irish-Dannyboy]

No, because the barrels with be longer than 18" in length.

Thank you. And thanks for the informative post on SBS weapons. Very interesting. Now im curious to know why certain guns fall into that category of being more dangerous than others?

On a side note im pretty certain then the gun I shot in the range was most likely not in that category and probably was a little larger than the one pictured. Reason is because when I asked the guy how much the retail he said about 399 and never mentioned it being a troublesome firearm to acquire which I imagine he would of.

thanks again!

[coy80176]

Check out the

Mossberg 500 combo

....it's a great first sg choice, affordably priced, flexible in uses, as reliable as they get

[NapalmCheese]

Only way to fix it was to find a drift and pop out the trigger assy.

So you used the magazine cap and went back to shooting birds in 3 minutes right?

[glock_this]

The thing with the KSG's is that there really do seem to be good ones and bad ones out there. It really does seem to be the luck of the draw. As long as you're prepared for this then buy at will.

On another note, do you want to bet your life on a gun that has to be cycled in just the right way? Do you think you might "hard stroke" the gun under stress...like when you're being shot at?

And I'm just thinking out loud here. I really have no dog in this fight as I prefer semi autos for home defense.

Long time member of the keltec forums and I would have to agree there are "good ones and bad ones" so it seems.

And you make a decent point about under pressure firing - but like with anything in firearms you practice & build up muscle memory & just like you can overcome flinching on pistols you can overcome the nuances of any of your weapons.

I believe in the KSG so much & its ability & my ability to use it - but I've shot the heck out of mine and "know" it - that it replaced the 500 in my bedroom.

[Ducky's Dad]

So you used the magazine cap and went back to shooting birds in 3 minutes right?

Close. Walked back to the truck and used a multi-tool on the tailgate, so that I could show the kid what to do next time.

[NapalmCheese]

Close. Walked back to the truck and used a multi-tool on the tailgate, so that I could show the kid what to do next time.

That works too.
I was just trying to talk up one of my favorite features of the Nova. The end of the magazine cap is the punch for the trigger group pins. They are incredibly easy to take down.