Looking for shotgun

[LowThudd]

i suggest you consider an older Remington 870 Wingmaster. prices continue to rise for these old gems, but i believe you can still pick one up for close to your ceiling price.

welcome to the forum.

I'd like to point out to OP that people are suggesting older Remingtons, because there have been a lot of problems with New Remington quality as of late. Even some serious recalls. If Remington is your choice, best to stick with an older one IMHO.

[JagerDog]

3.5" will not give you longer range than 3".
For example #4 shot in a 3.5" shell at 1300 FPS will not be any more powerful at 40 yards than a 3" or a 2 3/4 shell at the same speed and distance.
With the same choke you will have more pattern density, but the shot will not have more power.

Kinda sorta.

Where the 3.5 really comes into play is larger shot when pass shooting geese and such.

More "lead' is never a bad thing except perhaps on the shoulder or wallet. But yes, there's litte advantage in "duck" size or smaller shot.

[Steve_In_29]

I got a maverick 88 (no frills mossberg 500) for $180ish out the door (Dicks) with the 28 inch vented rib barrel (5+1). For $100 more I picked up the 18.5. Inch barrel from turners (you can find them all over). So I got a combo set for cheaper than the mossberg 500 combo. It is moss berg entry level shotgun.

Something to keep in mind when buying barrels for Mossbergs is that you need to match the barrel to the magazine tube. An 18.5" barrel for a 6 round home defense mag tube WON'T work on a 4 round hunting mag tube.

[LowThudd]

Something to keep in mind when buying barrels for Mossbergs is that you need to match the barrel to the magazine tube. An 18.5" barrel for a 6 round home defense mag tube WON'T work on a 4 round hunting mag tube.

Incorrect. Well, sort of. The security 500 is 8 shot(7+1), while the standard 500 is 6 shot(5+1). Otherwise, correct. Although Mossberg does make an Accu-Choke 28" barrel for the 8 shot. You have to special order it.

[LowThudd]

OP, if your primary interest is HD and desert fun, this is an awesome choice: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1098791

If you really wanted to use the same gun for hunting later, it is possible to change the mag tube and put a long barrel on it(or to but the 8 shot long barrel), but that is a lot of gun for $400. You may be better having two Sgs. One for fun/HD and another for hunting later on.

[NapalmCheese]

For a first sporting shotgun in the $400 dollar range my suggestion would be Benelli Nova, Remington 870, or the Mossberg 500 or 535 (in that order).

I'm just not a Mossberg fan. I believe that newer 870 expresses (and Remingtons in general) are suffering from QC problems, but if you don't mind possibly having to fix it yourself or wait for it to get fixed then it's not a problem (I do mind, so....). Personally I opt for the Benelli Nova.

It's easier to take down, easier to clean, and ugly as sin so you don't mind banging it up in the duck blind. It's a little heavy, but seems to recoil less because of it. It's a little bulky and chunky feeling and there isn't much you can do about it. It's basically impossible to fit to yourself since the stock and the receiver are cast as one piece. It'll shoot anything from 2-3/4 inch 12 gauge to 3-1/2 inch 12 gauge (and I've shot them all). It usually comes with 3 chokes which will cover most of your shooting and the controls are good. It is, in my opinion, the best of the budget pump shotguns. It is also the most expensive of the budget pump shotguns.

In comparison the 870 (express or otherwise) is sleeker and better looking and thinner in the wrist, harder to disassemble, harder to clean (because of the disassembly), easier to fit to yourself if you don't mind spending the time and money, cheaper (for a brand new express) and less refined/finished (for a brand new express).

The Mossbergs feel terrible to me and as such I do not own one and have no further comments on them.

If you have the coin the Supernova allows you to fit the gun to yourself.

If you want to be really cool, a used Ithaca 37 is leagues ahead of all of the above shotguns in build quality, handling, ergonomics and looks. Though with one exception those are all subjective reasons to prefer the 37. If you are left handed you might prefer the 37 for it's bottom ejection of empties. If you handload you might prefer the 37 because it's bottom ejection keeps your empties at your feet. If you are generally sophisticated and erudite you might prefer the 37 for any number of reasons (in 16 gauge specifically)

[Ducky's Dad]

And if you walk a lot while hunting and use a one-hand carry, the 37 may be unpleasant to carry because of the bottom ejection and the shape of the receiver. The 37 is a fine gun, but I think an old WingMaster is better. Had both, gave the 37 to my brother. Any Remington is easier to fix and much easier to modify, whether it's choke tubes or barrels or replacement wood. On the other hand, if you find a 37 Featherlite with fancy wood and vent rib, grab it.

[Huntsprig]

Doesn't better shot density equate to longer range? If you have the same shot density at 50 yards with a 3.5" as you do with a 3" at 40 yards, that makes it have a longer effective range.

You need both pattern density and pellet energy at the target.
3.5" shells only give you more density not more energy.
Pattern density without the energy will just send a bunch of crippled birds off to die hours or days later.


There is some debate what numbers to use but here they are using 600 FPS as a minimum or 1.28" for ducks and 1.80" for geese of gel penetration to consistently drop them which is kinda on the light side.

I prefer these numbers;

Big ducks - ballistic gel penetration = 1.5"
Snow geese and Lesser Canadas = 1.75"
Big Canadas - 2" to 2.25"
GIANT CANADAS - 2.5"


[IMG][/IMG]




Nothing personal but I see way to much sky busting out there when waterfowl hunting and I think comments like that encourages it.

Of course there is also the question of how many people have the skill to consistently kill and not cripple birds over 30 or 40 yards.
The short answer is not many.

[LowThudd]

You need both pattern density and pellet energy at the target.
3.5" shells only give you more density not more energy.
Pattern density without the energy will just send a bunch of crippled birds off to die hours or days later.


There is some debate what numbers to use but here they are using 600 FPS as a minimum or 1.28" for ducks and 1.80" for geese of gel penetration to constantly drop them.


[IMG][/IMG]




Nothing personal but I see way to much sky busting out there when waterfowl hunting and I think comments like that encourages it.

The point is that larger shot has higher long range energy. Correct?

OK, smaller shells hold less shot than larger shells, especially with larger shot.

With a larger shell filled with larger shot, the shot density must be greater as there is more shot to begin with. This means it is more capable at longer ranges. Same reason some prefer a 10 gauge for geese. More shot. Especially with larger shot.

[Huntsprig]

The point is that larger shot has higher long range energy. Correct?

OK, smaller shells hold less shot than larger shells, especially with larger shot.

With a larger shell filled with larger shot, the shot density must be greater as there is more shot to begin with. This means it is more capable at longer ranges. Same reason some prefer a 10 gauge for geese. More shot. Especially with larger shot.

I was 3" #4 comparing to 3.5" #4.
Apples to apples.
Now you change it.
You just want to argue.
I'm done.

[adamjay]

I prefer the rem870 over the Mos500. I like the safety position better and the takedown is much simpler. I'd be looking for a used Wingmaster 870 if I were you.

[Jet Setter]

If you have a Sportsmans Warehouse near you, they are having an 870 sale for around $290 + fees this weekend.

[donnrcp]

Check with your local range, if they rent shotguns, take some different ones for a test drive if you have no local friends with different shotties. You would buy a car without a test drive. I have an 870 that my wife gave me. A Big 5 Special with a 28 in barrel and Rem choke. I have a 20 in cylinder bore barrel with rifle sights and a rifled barrel with scope to go with it. Have fun!

P.S. I have a Mossberg 930 SPX for more fun!

[JagerDog]

For a first sporting shotgun in the $400 dollar range my suggestion would be Benelli Nova, Remington 870, or the Mossberg 500 or 535 (in that order).

I'm just not a Mossberg fan. I believe that newer 870 expresses (and Remingtons in general) are suffering from QC problems, but if you don't mind possibly having to fix it yourself or wait for it to get fixed then it's not a problem (I do mind, so....). Personally I opt for the Benelli Nova.

It's easier to take down, easier to clean, and ugly as sin so you don't mind banging it up in the duck blind. It's a little heavy, but seems to recoil less because of it. It's a little bulky and chunky feeling and there isn't much you can do about it. It's basically impossible to fit to yourself since the stock and the receiver are cast as one piece. It'll shoot anything from 2-3/4 inch 12 gauge to 3-1/2 inch 12 gauge (and I've shot them all). It usually comes with 3 chokes which will cover most of your shooting and the controls are good. It is, in my opinion, the best of the budget pump shotguns. It is also the most expensive of the budget pump shotguns.

In comparison the 870 (express or otherwise) is sleeker and better looking and thinner in the wrist, harder to disassemble, harder to clean (because of the disassembly), easier to fit to yourself if you don't mind spending the time and money, cheaper (for a brand new express) and less refined/finished (for a brand new express).

The Mossbergs feel terrible to me and as such I do not own one and have no further comments on them.

If you have the coin the Supernova allows you to fit the gun to yourself.

If you want to be really cool, a used Ithaca 37 is leagues ahead of all of the above shotguns in build quality, handling, ergonomics and looks. Though with one exception those are all subjective reasons to prefer the 37. If you are left handed you might prefer the 37 for it's bottom ejection of empties. If you handload you might prefer the 37 because it's bottom ejection keeps your empties at your feet. If you are generally sophisticated and erudite you might prefer the 37 for any number of reasons (in 16 gauge specifically)

Many moons ago, I consulted a friend to get the Mossberg. Mistake. The internal barrel finish looked like it had been drilled with a makita, the choke tube threads in the barrel cut with a pocket knife and to add insult to injury, it routinely dumped live rounds on the ground.

Re Ithaca 37's. Probably the best upland pump made. Old Model 12's are up there too. TMK most (other than police/riot) were made with 3" chanbers though which could be a problem for waterfowl. Note that a lot of 870's Wingmasters were also 2-3/4 unless the receiver said magnum. For some shooting, yes, the 37 drops the shells at your feet. I found with overhead shots as often seen in a duck blind, the shells ended up at least as far in the water as any other gun.

And if you walk a lot while hunting and use a one-hand carry, the 37 may be unpleasant to carry because of the bottom ejection and the shape of the receiver. The 37 is a fine gun, but I think an old WingMaster is better. Had both, gave the 37 to my brother. Any Remington is easier to fix and much easier to modify, whether it's choke tubes or barrels or replacement wood. On the other hand, if you find a 37 Featherlite with fancy wood and vent rib, grab it.

Hmmmm...I seldom if ever carry one handed with my hand under the receiver. The Rem certinly has much more aftermarket support. The 37 is rtaher "complicated" too.

[Handelfan]

It's easier to take down, easier to clean, and ugly as sin so you don't mind banging it up in the duck blind. It's a little heavy, but seems to recoil less because of it. It's a little bulky and chunky feeling and there isn't much you can do about it. It's basically impossible to fit to yourself since the stock and the receiver are cast as one piece. It'll shoot anything from 2-3/4 inch 12 gauge to 3-1/2 inch 12 gauge (and I've shot them all). It usually comes with 3 chokes which will cover most of your shooting and the controls are good. It is, in my opinion, the best of the budget pump shotguns. It is also the most expensive of the budget pump shotguns.

It's a great gun. Everything you said, shoots anything, easy to take down and clean, good quality.

I don't think it's ugly. I actually think its kinda sleek looking. I love mine. Everyone says it "handles like a 2x4", but actually, of the three I handled before purchasing this one - the Mossberg, the Remington, and the Benelli - this one shouldered the best, and offered (to me, at least) the cleanest view down the barrel. I also like the button underneath the pump handle that allows you to eject a shell without loading another from the mag tube.

The Remington (we ARE talking about the 870 express, right?) felt cheap and loose, like it was going to fall apart in my hands. The Mossberg just sort of seemed....boring? I hardly remember it. Weird.