short shells

[xsefan]

I saw the box of short shells 1 inch I think. My question is would this be a violation of mag capacity? Only in California would a, question the silly come up. Thanks your patience and input.

[Merc1138]

It hasn't been an issue in the past, and the only reason I can see it being an issue is if some cop is counting rounds at the range, and it'd then have to be dealt with in court.

Plus, those shells don't work in every shotgun either.

[j15w]

Shotgun tube mag capacity is based upon the shell the gun is chambered for. For example, a standard Mossberg 500 will be chambered in 3" and capacity of those shells is 5+1.

By using minishells, you are not changing tube mag capacity, and therefore any amount of the minishells in the tube would be legal. I will admit, however, this is kind of a gray area.

[glock_this]

Eeek.. I would never have thought nor agreed "you are not changing tube mag capacity, and therefore any amount of the minishells in the tube would be legal".

I have a KSG Shotgun. I "could" put a hell of a lot of Aguila mini shot shells in each tube. BUT, since I am in CA, I only put 10 minis on each side and stop.

[MissiontoMars]

I have nothing to add other than to say "interesting question".

I'm likely going to pick up an 8+1 shotgun here soon. If I can fit, say, 14 shells in the mag tube, Am I in fact breaking any rules? hmmm...

I don't know that pump shotguns HAVE any rules on magazine size. I think I remember reading in "How to own a gun and stay out of Jail" that because of the action type, there is simply not rules governing capacity, addition of pistol grips, flash, hiders, bayonets, adjustable stocks, etc, etc...

[glock_this]

A shotgun has a "magazine" it just happens to be an attached tube. So as I have always seen it, 10+1 is still applicable.

This was part of why everyone wondered if the KSG would be legal in CA. And, it is. That it is because you cannot put more than 10 shells in each magazine/tube. However, not so sure putting in mini shot shells was ever considered as then, it is easily beyond 10 per magazine tube. So, IMHO, no more than 10 minis per side in CA.

[Merc1138]

A shotgun has a "magazine" it just happens to be an attached tube. So as I have always seen it, 10+1 is still applicable.

This was part of why everyone wondered if the KSG would be legal in CA. And, it is. That it is because you cannot put more than 10 shells in each magazine/tube. However, not so sure putting in mini shot shells was ever considered as then, it is easily beyond 10 per magazine tube. So, IMHO, no more than 10 minis per side in CA.

You're thinking like NY's stupid laws(I can't remember if this one was struck down or not) where you couldn't put more than x number of rounds in a magazine, even though the capacity may have been higher. CA doesn't have any laws like that.

[glock_this]

You are saying that - and I would love to see others confirm this in some way as I am not onboard believing it - the fact that a KSG "could" hold say 24 mini rounds across 2 tubes, you don't have to limit it to 10 per tube? You are saying carrying 24 rounds in the mag tubes is ok?

the 10-round limit does apply to fixed and tube mags (with exemptions for lever-action and .22lr). Transferring a shotgun with a 11-round mag, fixed or tube, would be a violation of the large-cap mag ban.

Would this not also then apply to filling said mag tubes with rounds greater than 10?

ps - So in hunting, a 3 round limit in a shotgun w/ a dowel is limiting the mag tube from full capacity. Now I understand that is hunting, but that is an example of a law that does limit how many rounds you can carry despite the fact the weapon can carry more.

[Merc1138]

You are saying that - and I would love to see others confirm this in some way as I am not onboard believing it - the fact that a KSG "could" hold say 24 mini rounds across 2 tubes, you don't have to limit it to 10 per tube? You are saying carrying 24 rounds in the mag tubes is ok?



Would this not also then apply to filling said mag tubes with rounds greater than 10?

ps - So in hunting, a 3 round limit in a shotgun w/ a dowel is limiting the mag tube from full capacity. Now I understand that is hunting, but that is an example of a law that does limit how many rounds you can carry despite the fact the weapon can carry more.

You realize that you can fit more than 10 rounds on 9mm in some pistol magazines marked .40 without modification, and use them in a 9mm pistol, right? Still legal.

More than 10 short shells haven't been an issue in a magazine normally for 10 2 -3/4" shells, I don't see why you'd think it would be any different for a 7 round 2-3/4" shell magazine in a KSG.

[glock_this]

No, I did not know "you can fit more than 10 rounds on 9mm in some pistol magazines marked .40 without modification, and use them in a 9mm pistol" never experienced this or had a reason to try it.

If limits are 10 rounds, it does not seem logical to me that IF you can shove more rounds into said magazine, it is ok to do so.

[gun toting monkeyboy]

Are fixed tube magazines even part of the AWB? I didn't find anything on it on the flow sheet.

-Mb

[E Michael]

I have shot them out of an 870,you had to cycle it just right to get the new shell to go up. So I'd say if you wanted to shoot some at the range shouldn't be a problem, if you are thinking Rambo home defense you Might run into some trouble ha.

[Merc1138]

No, I did not know "you can fit more than 10 rounds on 9mm in some pistol magazines marked .40 without modification, and use them in a 9mm pistol" never experienced this or had a reason to try it.

If limits are 10 rounds, it does not seem logical to me that IF you can shove more rounds into said magazine, it is ok to do so.

A 10 round 2-3/4" shell magazine holds 10 2-3/4" shells. It's attached to a gun chambered for 2-3/4" shells.

There's nothing in the CA penal code that says you can't put more than 10 1-3/4" shells in it. There is nothing in the CA penal code that states you are required to insert only the maximum number of rounds that the magazine was designed for.

Because there is nothing that says you cannot do so, there is no reason to assume you cannot do so. That's how the law works.

If the law didn't work that way, then you couldn't have a 10 round .458 socom(or .50 beowulf, and possibly a number of other large bore AR cartridges) mag in CA(hell, you couldn't have a 5 round mag).



And you're right about the hunting magazine capacity bit, but we aren't discussing hunting. Those regulations only apply while hunting, and having 1-3/4" shells in a shotgun plugged to only hold 2 2-3/4" shells in the magazine is something you'd have to hash out with DFG.

[Merc1138]

Are fixed tube magazines even part of the AWB? I didn't find anything on it on the flow sheet.

-Mb

Large capacity mags don't have anything to do with the AWB unless they're fixed(and that's only on a semiauto centerfire rifle if I remember right). Large capacity mag laws are a separate issue, and there are exemptions.

http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Large-capacity_magazine_restrictions

As used in this part, "large-capacity magazine" means any
ammunition feeding device with the capacity to accept more than 10
rounds, but shall not be construed to include any of the following:
(a) A feeding device that has been permanently altered so that it
cannot accommodate more than 10 rounds.
(b) A .22 caliber tube ammunition feeding device.
(c) A tubular magazine that is contained in a lever-action
firearm.

None of which would apply to most shotguns.

[glock_this]

Willing to admit I stand corrected. But presently, I need more validation. I am not entirely sure "Because there is nothing that says you cannot do so, there is no reason to assume you cannot do so." is enough for me. Cool for you, not so much for me. But again, if I could get more validations on the topic, not just guys saying "oh yeah, he is right", but validation with some legal standing or more versed arguments, I could & would gladly concede.

But as it stands, no way I personally would show up with 12 Aguila mini shells per tube in my KSG and start blasting away in CA. But in CO, I have and would no problem