Which is more accurate/ expensive

[MechaDad]

Great info fellas. Will definitely reference for next year cuz for my wallet, and due to loss of SSE, this be the year of the pistola!

[BrianRodela]

For the precision part of a 10-22, a barrel, some bolt work and ammo go a long way. For accuracy, some trigger work does wonders. The bolt and trigger work can be done by an experienced smith or drop in parts make a big difference for a value minded shooter. I did my buddy's 10-22 with a $50 Simmons scope, Kidd barrel and SK ammo and for a little more than $550 bucks were making 10 shot groups at 50 yards that could be covered with a nickel. That's tough to beat.

[AR22]

Depends on which AR .22 you're talking about.

The s&w 15-22 is a great low cost option. However it is no target rifle. Great for plinking, getting someone familiar with firearms, etc.

The 10/22 gets to be ridiculous if you go the full custom route, but they turn out pretty nice. However it is very easy to end up with a $1000 rifle, not including the optic. You'll want a nice barrel, a nice trigger, a nice bolt, a nice stock, possibly a nicer receiver than a ruger factory model, etc. That being said, it'll never be as good(pretty damn close) as a dedicated .22lr target rifle like an anschutz even if you spent as much money upgrading a 10/22 than if you just bought an anschutz in the first place. At least it'll look better than an anschutz?

If we're talking about AR conversion kits, drop ins aren't the way to go. Yes they're cheap, but you'll end up with a plinker. Most of the uppers aren't much better than a drop in kit(well, you will get a more appropriate twist rate, and don't have to worry about fouling up your gas port or anything). The base model stuff like the CMMG uppers are kind of "meh", if you can get a nordic components style upper(JP-22 would be what you can currently buy) they're way better than the "normal" style unless you want something lightweight(then go with taccom). You mention getting the kids familiar with an AR-15, that would be the way to do it, as they'll have the same stock/trigger/grip/safety and already be familiar with the rifle when it's time to swap out the .22lr for the 5.56 upper.

edit: To further clarify why I said to go with the nordic/JP upper, is that the CMMG basically uses the same bolt assembly as the drop in kits, which when they work, work well. When they don't want to work well, they are quite headache inducing. The nordic style upper uses a bolt that is a bit closer to that of a 10/22 and since the inside of the upper receiver is cut square to fit the bolt rather than rely on the flimsy rails like the drop in kits and CMMG dedicated uppers do, they simply run smoother(externally they look the same).

Have two stainless Dedicated Bolt assembly's from CMMG and they run like a quality clock. Have been 100% dependable from the start. We never have had a problem with them. We shoot 1000s of round through those Bolts. They are not safe queens.

The rails are not "flimsy" The stainless CMMG Bolts are probably the smoothest running .22 Bolts I ever encountered an any .22 rifle.

The older parkerized CMMG ones were not as good. But even those ran great once broke in.

I do agree to skip the drop in conversions that use the 5.56 barrel. I also agree the SW is a good little rifle. But they are of a proprietary design and made of Plastic. Taccom and CMMG are "real" ARs that happen to shoot .22 rimfire.

[Merc1138]

Have two stainless Dedicated Bolt assembly's from CMMG and they run like a quality clock. Have been 100% dependable from the start. We never have had a problem with them. We shoot 1000s of round through those Bolts. They are not safe queens.

The rails are not "flimsy" The stainless CMMG Bolts are probably the smoothest running .22 Bolts I ever encountered an any .22 rifle.

The older parkerized CMMG ones were not as good. But even those ran great once broke in.

Sorry man, but they're flimsy. The thin plate that the bolt rides on is flimsy. The weld to the back plate that holds the guiderod is flimsy. One wrong move tweaking the rails while trying to remove the bolt and that thing is toast.

The nordic bolt on the other hand, I could probably get away with using to drive nails and not worry about anything since the inside of the receiver itself guides it.

No rails to bend here.

Even the chamber end of the barrel is a tank compared to the CMMG kits.


Yes I know it looks filthy, I don't care, it runs just fine.

Funny thing though, is that it looks like the JP-22 uppers are now using the crappy atchisson style bolts again based off the product picture. Probably because NC was being slow about producing them(still). Makes me wonder if DPMS is still using them for their uppers.

[AR22]

One wrong move tweaking the rails? I do not know what you are talking about but I and 1000s of others have removed our Ciener style Bolts 100s of times and they do not break. There is no tweaking to remove the Bolts. They simply come right out with ease. They do not bind in any way so no "tweaking" necessary to remove them. They slip out like butter.

If you do ever break a CMMG or Taccom Bolt they will replace them very promptly. Both have some of the fastest and best customer service in the Industry.

So just how many CMMG Bolts have you "tweaked" and broken? How many do you own? I do not own a Nordic and never will. But I also never claimed anything bad about them as I know nothing about them.. Other than the proprietary design I do not wish to have. Nor most others either.

If you are happy with your proprietary Bolt and upper, good for you. But do not try to claim the Nordic Proprietary Design is superior, and that the Ceiner style Bolts just crumble and fall apart. That is CRAZY at best.. 1000s disagree with you. I do not have the numbers. But I guarantee you that Ceiner type Bolts are by far the most used by everyone. There are reasons for that. If they were junk, everyone would have a Nordic style one. It is just the opposite. Most have CMMG and Taccom Ceiner style ones.

I am sure they realized people prefer the Ceiner style over the one you have. That is why the change. Nothing about not being able to produce them. They are just not good sellers to begin with, with that proprietary Bolt Design. No one wants em.

They may have realized it is smarter to sell a Bolt design that fits a standard AR15 upper receiver. To make any other design is just plain NUTS. Why would you want build a Proprietary upper receiver to fit your Bolt. Just more unneeded expense. Better to just make a Bolt to fit the standard readily available AR15 uppers to begin with. Then all other parts will fit also. I do not see if Nordic is even selling a .22 upper anymore?

One final note. There is really a complete lack of support for parts or anything for the Nordic uppers. I do not even think they are making them anymore. Tim from Taccom used to work there. You know with CMMG and Taccom they are in for the long haul. And you will always have great tech support. Parts availability and great customer service.

Have you tried to get any parts for that Nordic recently? Good Luck. If you still can get any at all. It will not be long and you will not be able to.

Since it only takes about two seconds to remove one of my CMMG Bolts, heres a pic. Amazing it did not break in those two seconds

This Bolt likely has around atleast 7000 rounds through it and is around 4 years old. If it ever does have a problem however. CMMG will have me a new FREE replacement in a matter of Days. Try that with Nordic.

Believe me fellas. These are Quality Bolts despite what Merc tries to claim. Most will already know that though if they own one. They are even prettier M

[Merc1138]

Since it only takes about two seconds to remove one of my CMMG Bolts, heres a pic. Amazing it did not break in those two seconds

And thanks for proving that you don't know what you're talking about. You removed the bolt carrier group. Apparently you have removed the bolt 0 times. If those rails get tweaked, the bolt binds up, then you need to buy a replacement.

As far as replacement parts, you mean the 10/22 extractor? Yeah, those are so hard to come by. Coil springs really tough to find The benefit to the end user having a standard upper is what? So you can disassemble the whole thing and swap it out for a replacement upper? Yeah, I guess you could do that.

And yes, it does take more time to produce them with NC being slow about it. They were produced in batches when NC was actually selling them, and they were sold in batches when JP was selling them. This was a well known issue with various products from NC for anything beyond 1 or 2 parts that need to be milled out. Their collapsing stock would be another example.

The funny thing is, you praise the CMMG ceiner style kits so much, yet forget that taccom sells a handful of replacement parts as a kit just so they can work worth a crap. Been there done that myself with a CMMG upper. Fortunately it wasn't going stay in my safe to begin with, because the damned thing was annoying.

edit: Speaking of the taccom kit, specifically the pressure plug(good idea for a product btw), it's actually made to cause the ceiner style kits like the CMMG to have pressure applied from the rear instead of relying on the collar to hold the bolt assembly forward on the barrel. Which is the same way that the NC22 bolt operates. Go figure.

[Jimi Jah]

My drop in Ciener .22LR bolts work like a champ. One had some problems I sent it back for, it 'collected' a large amount of lead shavings in the bore.

I followed some advice here and stripped them down to polish the rails, chamber and feed ramps. I use Slip 2000 EWL, the thin stuff and they now work all day long. I usually will pull them out after 300 rounds for a quick check and scrub and go back shooting. They now clean up real quick, no more lead deposits and 5 minutes later it's ready to go.

My best barrel for .22LR is a Del-ton 1/9 non chrome 20". It does about a 1" spread at 25 yards. I have a Green Mountain 20" 1/12 I will try out next.

[Merc1138]

My drop in Ciener .22LR bolts work like a champ. One had some problems I sent it back for, it 'collected' a large amount of lead shavings in the bore.

I followed some advice here and stripped them down to polish the rails, chamber and feed ramps. I use Slip 2000 EWL, the thin stuff and they now work all day long. I usually will pull them out after 300 rounds for a quick check and scrub and go back shooting. They now clean up real quick, no more lead deposits and 5 minutes later it's ready to go.

My best barrel for .22LR is a Del-ton 1/9 non chrome 20". It does about a 1" spread at 25 yards. I have a Green Mountain 20" 1/12 I will try out next.

Well sure there are indeed people that have had success with them, I'm not denying that. However I'm not living in fantasy land like AR22 having to just make up nonsense. The lead deposit problem is something I hadn't heard do about with those before. Typically everything is related to the rails in one way or another when I've come across complaints about them.

[AR22]

Merc. I do not "make up nonsense"

I have removed the collars before. Unless your an Idiot. It is very simple. There is a proper way to do it. I can remove one the proper way and put it back on in less than 30 seconds with absolutely no ill effects... It also is not something you ever need to do normally anyway. It is simply cleaned with it all together. Cleans up in minutes. Want me to make you a video, it will be very short of course.

Like I said. You love the Nordic. More power to you. Have at it. Both my CMMGs run 100% flawless. There is not better endorsement than that I can give. Mine are not the only ones.

There is a reason that CMMG and Taccom dwarf the sales Nordic ever had with their uppers. Or ever will.

Most just DO NOT WANT a proprietary designed AR 22 upper. They want a real one that is just like its big brother.


Give it up already. Sorry you are in a lonely crowd when it comes to owning the Nordic. Most sell them and go the CMMG or Taccom route. That simple.

If you do not like a CMMG Bolt. Get Taccom one. Or are those Junk too? I am sure you have had many problems with those also..LOL

We will have to agree to disagree. I know what works for me. You know what works for you.

[CSACANNONEER]

The 10/22 will end up costing a lot less than an AR platform .22 and most likely be a better performer.

LMAO. I've got more into one of my 10-22s than most people have into their ARs. Now, I do have one dedicated .22lr upper that would run about $2500 for the upper alone but, that's not the norm for .22lr ARs.

[AR22]

You can put nearly endless money in either one. Is it worth it for a Plinking round? That is up to the guy putting out the money to decide..

I have around 600.00 in one upper. Lower not included. But you can spend much, much more

[Merc1138]

Merc. Your plain Crazy..

I have removed the collars before. Unless your an Idiot. It is very simple. There is a proper way to do it. I can remove one the proper way and put it back on in less than 30 seconds with absolutely no ill effects... It also is not something you ever need to do normally anyway. It is simply cleaned with it all together. Cleans up in minutes. Want me to make you a video, it will be very short of course.

Go over to the AR15 Forum in the AR rimfire section and you will get educated.

Like I said. You love the Nordic. More power to you. Have at it. My opinion is there are much better products that are well above them in Quality. Both my CMMGs run 100% flawless. There is not better endorsement than that I can give. Mine are not the only ones.

There is a reason that CMMG and Taccom dwarf the sales Nordic ever had with their uppers. Or ever will.

Most just DO NOT WANT a proprietary designed AR 22 upper. They want a real one that is just like its big brother.


Give it up already. Sorry you are in a lonely crowd when it comes to owning the Nordic. Most sell them and go the CMMG or Taccom route. That simple.

If you do not like a CMMG Bolt. Get Taccom one. Or are those Junk too? I am sure you have had many problems with those also..LOL

We will have to agree to disagree. I know what works for me. You know what works for you.

And again, you're making things up. If they were for sale by owners because they were so junky, they'd be easy to find. Clearly this is not the case, when the reality is that if you communicate with owners of them, they won't give them up. The ceiner .22lr system has flaws that the nordic does not, and taccom makes parts for to try and resolve. I have no problem admitting that nordic sucks when it comes to keeping anything but shotgun extension tubes in production, and I don't need to just make things up about other designs or their manufacturers to try and make myself seem correct. While you appear to have no experience with the nordic system(and little experience with the ceiner), I happen to have experience with both.

The other thing is, I don't have to resort to calling someone an idiot to make my point.

As far as the proprietary nature of the receiver itself, so what? I already pointed out that it's only an issue if you wanted to swap out the upper receiver and build yourself something like an m16a1 clone. I could call you an idiot, instead I'll ask a question. Do you just never own a firearm that isn't currently in production? Are people who own and use firearms not currently in production "idiots"? You're so stuck on non-proprietary parts, is someone who uses a piston upper for an AR an "idiot"?

BTW, if you want to get educated about .22lr, I would suggest you visit RFC for a start instead of trying to tell other people to go to arfcom.

You can put nearly endless money in either one. Is it worth it for a Plinking round? That is up to the guy putting out the money to decide..

I have around 600.00 in one upper. Lower not included. But you can spend much, much more

Not every .22lr gun is for "plinking" either.

[Jimi Jah]

I shoot .22LR for funs and to save a little $. I don't really care about MOA results shooting those rounds. It's for plinking off metal chickens and stuff.

If I was serious about .22LR I would spend a couple thou for one of those Olympic "Aw-Shucks" rifles. I can't see wasting 500 bucks for .22LR upper.

Whenever I get tired of missing with .22LR, a 1 minute switch to a .223 BCG gets me spot on target. Then I ask myself, "why did you waste time shooting .22LR?"

Because it's cheap.

[CSACANNONEER]

I shoot .22LR for funs and to save a little $. I don't really care about MOA results shooting those rounds. It's for plinking off metal chickens and stuff.

If I was serious about .22LR I would spend a couple thou for one of those Olympic "Aw-Shucks" rifles. I can't see wasting 500 bucks for .22LR upper.

Whenever I get tired of missing with .22LR, a 1 minute switch to a .223 BCG gets me spot on target. Then I ask myself, "why did you waste time shooting .22LR?"

Because it's cheap.

MOA has NOTHING to do with "accuracy" which is what the OP asked about.

$500 for a .22lr upper is a waste? So, the close to $2500 I spent on a .22lr Lakeside machine upper wasn't worth it? OK, if you see me at the range shooting it, don't bother asking to try it. I'll let everyone else run a belt though it except you.

When I get done shooting my 50BMGs, I gravitate towards .22lrs. I try not to waste my time with .223 if I can help it.

[Jimi Jah]

I don't ask others if I can shoot their guns. .22LR is a fun round. Maybe not so much for you if you invested that much to shoot it.