Ammo for Phoenix Arms HP-22A

[SandHill]

Phoenix Arms advises using only "standard velocity" ammo in the their HP-22A and website recommends ammo between 1050-1150 fps https://phoenix-arms.com/FAQ/index.html

The problem is that this really isn't "standard" anymore. Its hard enough to find .22LR at all, but pretty much everything that is available is 1250-1300 fps.

There are plenty of stories on the web about cracked frames, and many of the owners admit to not following the "standard velocity" advice. Question: is it really the hyper velocity ammo that is the problem, or are things like Remington Golden Bullets, with around 1250 fps, a problem? If it has to be 1050-1150 fps, what major brands are in this range and which are (i) the cheapest, and (ii) available?

The only thing I am seeing under 1250 fps is "subsonic" and that is very expensive/unobtanium.

Anyone have long term experience shooting "high velocity" (but not too high) in one of these?

[Chaos47]

Yes I have read reports of even "High" velocity cracking the frames thats what most ammo out there is, especially bulk.

"Hyper" would be a downright bad idea

BTW most "match" grade ammo is standard velocity.

Sorry too lazy to search for the posts but there are plenty of reports on CGN of this happening.

[Occams Rasor]

CCI standard vel is rated for 1100 fps also Norma. Both have been on again, off again "in stock" from different outlets. Expect to pay ~ 10 cents per round.

[sealocan]

This is one of the few gun companies that obviously has a major design flaw but rather than fix it and charging 20 more dollars, they just change their warranty & literature to say only standard velocity ammo can be used.
They know standard velocity in .22 is becoming harder and harder to find and has been more expensive for quite some time.
don't they have a lifetime warranty as long as you were shooting the standard velocity stuff?

in your opinion isn't high velocity now the new " standard " of velocity of 22 rimfire ammunition?

I'm not saying lie to them when you sending your broke pistol, because I never would, but then again I wouldn't buy one unless someone was giving it to me so cheaply that I could go and find some of the now more expensive original standard velocity ammunition and when and if it broke I I wouldn't care about the $ I spent on it.

[SunsetIE]

I cant comment on the velocity issues, but i played with a PA 22 the other night (owned by a guy who works at the company) and they feel pretty damn flimsy and cheap - matches the pricepoint!

[sealocan]

^^^mrrabbit

(of course like most people here I know the difference in velocity between standards, high velocity and even hypervelocity.)

I was not whining, I'm just stating the facts as they are or as I believe them to be.

my last paragraph agrees with your number 1.

your number 2. obviously a clean gun is better functioning but are you stating that if you keep your gun clean it will never break?

I mentioned reading the manual in my first paragraph - your number 3.


MOST importantly your number 4. "used as designed" -
now that's the one you should really focus on because if I'm not mistaken (and I have an old gun magazine to to confirm this) the original design did not insist on .22 standard velocity only.

so when they encounter the problems of multiple frames cracking, rather than fix the design flaw they just changed the literature and their warranty to cover their own backside.

( I will check on that & if I'm wrong on that I am sorry.it has been a long time since I read that article.)
I'm also not insulting you or complaining because I agree with you it is a "decent" little gun (with a few too many safeties from my tastes.)but I think it should be a price point about half of what we get them for in California.

I know it can be hard to comprehend someone's emotions when reading their writing but my first post was not in the whining attitude and this one is in a friendly discussion attitude.

so if you would like to do some fact checking on Your Number 4. Point and send me a PM we can have a intelligent conversation about it.

[majtom94]

All the supply you need is at PalmettoStateArmory. I got a brick of it.

[sealocan]

I guess my bottom line is now AFTER the fact that had so many problems they change their warranty & manual. (Again, I could be wrong on that.)

and I hate to discuss theoretical gun problems when we have actual ones to deal with but using yours-

I would say - badly designed and thoroughly untested firearm right from the factory, poorly written manual or documentation, and the last thing I would conclude is that I would probably not buy a weapon from that manufacture, it unless it was cheap enough that I could forgive its above stated issues.

let me give you a theoretical if you manufactured & designed a gun and you sold as being able to fire 38 special but it kept cracking frames and blowing up in peoples faces....

would you fix the design problem and test your guns more thoroughly in the future.
or
would you just change the literature & the markings on the gun to say it only fires 38 Smith and Wesson short, and had to be under 200 fps for it to be covered under warranty?


thanks for the fun discussion. :-)

[sealocan]

To the original OP definitely check out this thread from last year..
The person that posted it states, that he only fired standard velocity but yet, his frame still cracked and he was at that point still waiting 2 months to just hear back from the manufacturer.

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=596276

don't think I'm hating on Phoenix Arms, maybe their .25 acp HP - 25 model is the way to go and I'm all for guns being made here in California.

[gemini1]

I must be one of the lucky ones. I've shot around 2K rounds of Mini Mag, Supex X and Federal bulks on my Phoenix Arms. Except for the firing pin block safety, that went missing the last time at the range, the frame is still in good shape.
I have emailed PA about it, but its been three weeks and I still haven't heard back from them.

[SandHill]

There's plenty of standard velocity out there...

...see the sticky on Ammo Links...

CCI Standard 1070fps
Norma TAC22 1100 / 1150 fps
Aguila Subsonic 1025 fps
Remington Subsonic 1050 fps

...have popped up as of late.

=8-)

Thanks, Mr. Rabbit, this list was helpful. I bit the bullet (sorry) and ordered a brick of Norma and a brick of Aguila Subsonic from Midway today. Was disappointed they wouldn't count these items towards the $175 for free shipping, so I ordered just the .22 and used a $10 off code. Net $106 shipped for 1,000 rounds of ammo. Not as cheap as it used to be, but still a lot cheaper than centerfire handgun ammo.

I am going to stick to the "standard velocity" stuff and if the frame cracks I plan to be pretty persistent with Phoenix to step up on their warranty.

The Phoenix Arms offering is just what I was looking for to teach my kids to shoot a handgun.

[aghauler]

It's an okay semi-auto pistol, I have one and like it.

However, because of the "features" it is not for the average person who wants to get straight to the point in 15 minutes or less. It's more for methodical people like myself...

The "features" can be annoying for most...

...but I tolerate 'em.

=8-)

I've got an HP22A also and use the Norma Tac 22 in it. I don't get to shoot as often as I'd like so it's still fairly less than "broken in". Have you done any of the mods referenced on the internet and Youtube?

[Rosebud22]

However I do use last round hold open slugs which are permanently installed in the magazine first. These are available from topstar76 on eBay.

Mrrabbit: Can you explain what this is? I did a ebay search for topstar76,
but nothing came up on the item. Does the product have a name?

[aghauler]

Nope...

However I do use last round hold open slugs which are permanently installed in the magazine first. These are available from topstar76 on eBay.

That reduces the magazines to 9 rounds...loading in round #9 can be painful on the fingers.

=8-)

Interesting never thought about that.

BUT I did come up with something to help save my thumb when loading the mags. An ADCO Super Thumb loading tool for a single stack 380 magazine. You shave down the sides of the peg that pushes the round into the mag so it will fit into the mag and force the previous round down while you insert the next one. I tried it out the last time I took the HP 22A out and it seemed to work fine and my thumb wasn't sore! I tried gloves but that was a PIA to deal with, so this loading tool worked fine for my needs.