SW 617 help

[chingdaotze]

Hello all,

I bought a used SW 617 .22lr two years ago, and it's given me problems non-stop. There was timing issue when I bought the gun (got scammed), so I sent it back to the factory on my own dime to get it re-timed (cost me $220!!!) Now there's several more issues with the gun:

1) The cylinder binds 2 out of the 10 chambers, and it's the same chambers every time. Double action or single action, nothing will rotate the cylinder. I have swing out the cylinder, skip those two, and close it again to keep firing.

2) After 30-40 rounds, the cylinder will begin to bind up regardless of which chamber it's on. I fix this by opening the cylinder and pressing the cartridges forward. After this it'll work for another 30-40 rounds. What could cause the cartridges to back out and start binding against the circular part of the frame behind the cylinder? I'm mostly using CCI Blazer .22

3) The gun still sprays lead even though the timing issue is fixed. I check lockup before firing, and it's solid. Is it normal for this gun to spray lead?

I really REALLY want to keep it, because it's a great companion gun for my M66, but I'm having a hard time enjoying it. Any help is appreciated. Thanks!

[ojisan]

.22LR revolvers need to have the extractor star area kept super clean.
Depending on how dirty the ammo is, you may want to use a toothbrush and do a quick brush out of the backside of the extractor star and the rear face of the cylinder every couple hundred rounds.
If the star is not seated completely; timing problems, cylinder binding and misfires will result.

The two chambers that bind...are they 100% clean and spotless?
Do unfired rounds drop all the way in bytheir own weight without any binding or delay?


Lead spitting is usually caused by the chamber not being perfectly in alignment with the barrel when a round is fired...it's hard to imagine that Smith did not make sure this is right after the gun was re-timed.
Some revolvers spit a little all the time, but correct timing, a clean barrel face and a clean forcing cone will all reduce this.

[compulsivegunbuyer]

Like this one? I had a model 63 with this same problem, and the recess in a couple of the chambers were cut too wide. The case rim would balloon out and jam against the recoil shield. A improperly cut forcing cone, and a excessively large cylinder gap can also cause spitting. It went back to Smith 3 times. Despite explaining the problem, and sending the budging shells, they kept sending it back ultra polished, but with the same issues. First time they replaced the cylinder bushing, second time the yoke, and third time the whole gun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p9BMdzl4rNQ

[chingdaotze]

Oh my goodness yes exactly like that video. Unfortunately since I'm not the original buyer, Smith doesn't honor the warranty, so a replacement gun is not possible The cylinder gap seems close enough to not be a problem. How would one check for an improperly cut forcing cone?

The extractor star usually gets some gunk on it, but it seems a little on the pain-in-the-butt side to have to clean the gun every 30-40 rounds. The rounds stick in the gun, and I usually have to use a decent amount of force to get them out.

[compulsivegunbuyer]

When you look in the back of the barrel, it should taper into the rifling. Stick a bullet into the back of the forcing cone. On my Model 17, and the recut cone on my 617, the bullet goes in almost up to the brass before encountering resistance. I believe the cylinder gap should be between .004-.006", with the max spec being .010"

I have a 4" 617 that would lead the forcing cone, cylinder face, and top strap pretty bad. S&W says this is normal, 22 revolvers lead up some. But I have a Model 17-8 that barely leads at all. I took my 617 to Alan Tanaka, and he cut the forcing cone, recrowned the barrel, did some work to the cylinder, and made the trigger a work of art. It barely leads at all now, and has clover leaf accuracy. In my opinion, Smith has taken all the handwork out of these. "good enough" seems to be the motto to get it out the door. In my opinion, revolvers by design do not lend themselves well to automation.

I asked a gunsmith about revolver timing once, and this is how he explained it to me. Timing is the relationship between the hand, cylinder stop, and sear. If the cylinder locks up before the sear, you will not be able to pull the hammer all the way back to engage it. If the sear locks up before the cylinder, the chamber will not be aligned with the barrel, and the bullet may shear on the side of the barrel. Check the lockup of each chamber on the cylinder. If the cylinder locks up and the chamber is not algined, that is not timing, and is not adjustable. That means that the notches in the cylinder are cut in the wrong place in relation to the chambers, and the cylinder needs to be replaced. If a replacement cylinder yields the same results, the hole for the cylinder stop could be cut in the wrong place. I suppose if the yoke were out of spec, it could change the alignment also, but there is no adjustment for where the cylinder locks up.
Have it checked by a competent gunsmith is the best thing you can do.

[Cactus_Tim]

Unfortunately since I'm not the original buyer, Smith doesn't honor the warranty, so a replacement gun is not possible

That is exactly the reason I chose to pass on buying a used S&W 617.
There was a nice looking one for sale. But I had a weird feeling and wondered about the warranty.
Decided to buy a new Ruger instead.

[chingdaotze]

I don't think I'll be buying a used S&W again. The reason why I got this one was because I wanted a companion for my Model 66, but by now I've probably put close to $800.00 worth of work into it.

My Model 66 was a used police gun, and it's been flawless.

Anyways I've contacted Mr. Tanaka. I think I'd rather do it right all at once than pay the Smith people to screw it up again.

On a totally related note, does anyone have a list of manufacturers who honor warranties on used/secondhand guns?

[compulsivegunbuyer]

That is exactly the reason I chose to pass on buying a used S&W 617.
There was a nice looking one for sale. But I had a weird feeling and wondered about the warranty.
Decided to buy a new Ruger instead

This is one of the reasons I laugh when I see used guns at new prices. Why is it for sale? What's wrong with it? And what has someone done to it? Read through the gun forums, and you will find a ton of threads where people don't send it back. They break out the dremmel and start polishing everything, and when that does not work, they pitch it off. With no warranty and no way to check it out, there is just too much risk of getting burned unless it's real cheap. I'm sure Alan will get that thing working for you.

[cudakidd]

I have sent used S&W backs that I got used and had no issues with sErvice. I paid for the extras, bead blast etc, but they checked for function and replaced parts for FREE!

Their service is Excellent!

[compulsivegunbuyer]

Give us an update after Tanaka works his magic.

[03fatboy]

Seems S&W should have made it right! But I too, am interested to see if Mr. Tanaka can work some magic, so please let us know.

[chingdaotze]

I went and visited Mr. Tanaka yesterday. He took about 45 minutes to inspect the revolver, where he pretty much measured everything. He compared the results to a giant book on 617 specs and found the revolver was in spec except the diameter of the chamber mouths, and told me that wouldn't cause the problems I had.

He then told me to try a different brand of ammo, so I'm heading off to Angeles on Thursday to do some testing.

I also asked him about doing a trigger job. He picked up the gun and told me someone had already done a trigger job, and that he wouldn't make any significant improvement. He seems like a really honest guy, and didn't try to sell me anything he didn't think I needed. On top of that, the inspection was free even though it took 45 mins of his time.

Will report back after Thurs.

[chingdaotze]

Came back from Angeles today and I'm shocked. Mr. Tanaka was right, and gets a million thumbs up from me! I used Winchester Xpert HV, Federal bulk pack, and Winchester white box. Only the CCI and Blazer gave me trouble, which sucks because I had just bought 4 bricks of Blazer. I fired 525 rounds of Xpert HV and nary a cylinder bind, misfire, spray of lead, or malfunction, with no stops for cleaning or anything. Problem solved!

As for my cylinder binding without ammo, it turns out the factory did a very poor fitting job. I opened up the revolver, stoned the timing hand to decrease the width, closed, fitted, and repeated until the cylinder rotated on all chambers. Looks like everything is hunky-dory with this revolver now, except the Blazer part.