Remfire Magazine Double-Check

[Helpful_Cub]

Hi All,

I'm just doing a double-check. I have a Remington 597 and I'd like to use high-cap magazines with it. From what I understand its legal to have the magazines and use them, I just can't "import" them. Is that correct?

Here's a related thread about it.

http://mobile.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=286373

[Turo]

You are correct. As long as you don't "sell, advertise for sale, give, lend, manufacture, import, etc" large-capacity magazines then you've broken no laws. Also, California AW laws don't apply to rimfire, so it's okay to use a large-capacity magazine in a rimfire rifle or pistol with "evil features" on it.

[NorCalDustin]

Correct... That same rule, "You can use them if you had them before the ban, OR aquired them in some legal way (I.E., found them)" applys.

[Flyingpootang]

You can also buy rebuild kits for your broken existing pre-ban mags and replace parts as necessary to make the old ones work. Eventually you may replace 100% of the parts, just not in the same day. For example if you have pre-ban Ciener mags that fit an AR type lower you can by Black Dog rebuild kits since the followers, springs, floor plates etc are interchangeable, but the bodies are different. Nice thing is you can now use them with anything it will fit in, just as along as they still works as intended in the original gun it was designed for your good to go.You are also not required to keep any old parts of your pre-ban mags as proof. If bringing/ordering rebuild kits into CA be sure they are disassembled ie kit form since you want to be in compliance. Mags are expendables so having parts kits are a great way to keep them running. It's not worth it to break any laws and end up with more mags then you started with. 4 pre-bans + 100 kits still = 4 pre-ban/assembled rebuilds in your possession.

[Mssr. Eleganté]

...Also, California AW laws don't apply to rimfire, so it's okay to use a large-capacity magazine in a rimfire rifle or pistol with "evil features" on it.

California AW laws do indeed apply to rimfire handguns. It's still perfectly legal to use legally possessed large capacity magazines in rimfire handguns, but you need to make sure the handgun isn't an illegal assault weapon...no evil features, no fixed magazine over 10 rounds.

[Turo]

California AW laws do indeed apply to rimfire handguns. It's still perfectly legal to use legally possessed large capacity magazines in rimfire handguns, but you need to make sure the handgun isn't an illegal assault weapon...no evil features, no fixed magazine over 10 rounds.

I think I worded that incorrectly, thanks for pointing it out. I should have said "rimfire rifles" which is what the OP was talking about. I'll change my post to reflect that.

[Turo]

You can also buy rebuild kits for your broken existing pre-ban mags and replace parts as necessary to make the old ones work. Eventually you may replace 100% of the parts, just not in the same day. For example if you have pre-ban Ciener mags that fit an AR type lower you can by Black Dog rebuild kits since the followers, springs, floor plates etc are interchangeable, but the bodies are different. Nice thing is you can now use them with anything it will fit in, just as along as they still works as intended in the original gun it was designed for your good to go.You are also not required to keep any old parts of your pre-ban mags as proof. If bringing/ordering rebuild kits into CA be sure they are disassembled ie kit form since you want to be in compliance. Mags are expendables so having parts kits are a great way to keep them running. It's not worth it to break any laws and end up with more mags then you started with. 4 pre-bans + 100 kits still = 4 pre-ban/assembled rebuilds in your possession.

Nowhere in the law does it mention how long the replacing of parts needs to take. You can replace all parts to a magazine in as little or as much time as you want.

Also, the law doesn't specify that there needs to be a common part between the old "large-capacity magazine" and the rebuilt one, just that the rebuilt magazine must still work in the gun it worked in prior to 2000. The "common part" idea was proposed so that there was a logical chain of events to explain how one large-capacity magazine turned into a different one, but it is not codified in the law.

[Flyingpootang]

Nowhere in the law does it mention how long the replacing of parts needs to take. You can replace all parts to a magazine in as little or as much time as you want.

Also, the law doesn't specify that there needs to be a common part between the old "large-capacity magazine" and the rebuilt one, just that the rebuilt magazine must still work in the gun it worked in prior to 2000. The "common part" idea was proposed so that there was a logical chain of events to explain how one large-capacity magazine turned into a different one, but it is not codified in the law.

(1) "Nowhere" may be considered manufacturing using 100% of a rebuild kit at once to make a functioning magazine.

(2) You may want to look at the 05 letter written to the Attorney General epically Q&A 7. If you read it a couple of time it may become clearer on how to stay out of trouble.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

[Turo]

(1) "Nowhere" may be considered manufacturing using 100% of a rebuild kit at once to make a functioning magazine.

(2) You may want to look at the 05 letter written to the Attorney General epically Q&A 7. If you read it a couple of time it may become clearer on how to stay out of trouble.
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ...2005-11-10.pdf

Manufacturing a magazine is assembling the parts into a working magazine where there wasn't one before. You specifically said the rebuild must take place over more than one day, which is not codified into any law. My statement still stands.

I've read that letter many times before, and understand it fully. The DOJ merely suggests that it might be prudent to keep a record of rebuilding magazines in the case that you are charged with manufacturing. There is no legal obligation to do so.

[Flyingpootang]

My statement still stands.

I think I'll take my chances by sticking to not manufacturing a magazine out of a kit in one day, but if you feel comfortable in doing so don't let me stop you from your interpretation of the law. There are a couple of good threads in the LEO section on manufacturing Hi-Caps and it may shine some light on this discussion. I've done my research and encourage everyone to do theirs, so when they good fellas in blue ask you "where/when did you get that?" you'll have a valid response that will not get you a free ride matching stainless steel bracelets.

[Oceanbob]

Don't fret over it

so when they good fellas in blue ask you "where/when did you get that?" you'll have a valid response that will not get you a free ride matching stainless steel bracelets.

First of all the COPS or Good fellas in Blue simply don't ask that question.

The law is PASSIVE not INTERACTIVE. Police or CDOJ officials do not and have not checked Shooting Ranges or any other person, place or event for High Cap Magazines.

It is NOT against the law to Own and Possess High Capacity Magazines.

If asked by some CLOWN with a Badge, simply say "Yes I own this; am I free to go officer"?

Do not give details on how you acquired any magazine; not a single word needs to be spoken regarding that question.

Ownership or possesion of a High Capacity Magazine is not even in the Penal Code. The COPS can't do anything if you follow the simple rules above.

I have rebuilt several of my Magazines in a 30 minute period. Big Phorking Deal.

Remember to keep conversations with Police to a minimum. In fact, don't talk to the Police at all.

Bob

[Turo]

First of all the COPS or Good fellas in Blue simply don't ask that question.

The law is PASSIVE not INTERACTIVE. Police or CDOJ officials do not and have not checked Shooting Ranges or any other person, place or event for High Cap Magazines.

It is NOT against the law to Own and Possess High Capacity Magazines.

If asked by some CLOWN with a Badge, simply say "Yes I own this; am I free to go officer"?

Do not give details on how you acquired any magazine; not a single word needs to be spoken regarding that question.

Ownership or possesion of a High Capacity Magazine is not even in the Penal Code. The COPS can't do anything if you follow the simple rules above.

I have rebuilt several of my Magazines in a 30 minute period. Big Phorking Deal.

Remember to keep conversations with Police to a minimum. In fact, don't talk to the Police at all.

Bob

I was trying to figure out how to say exactly this. But you beat me to it .
So yeah, basically this.

[Flyingpootang]

First of all the COPS or Good fellas in Blue simply don't ask that question.

The law is PASSIVE not INTERACTIVE. Police or CDOJ officials do not and have not checked Shooting Ranges or any other person, place or event for High Cap Magazines.

It is NOT against the law to Own and Possess High Capacity Magazines.

If asked by some CLOWN with a Badge, simply say "Yes I own this; am I free to go officer"?

Do not give details on how you acquired any magazine; not a single word needs to be spoken regarding that question.

Ownership or possesion of a High Capacity Magazine is not even in the Penal Code. The COPS can't do anything if you follow the simple rules above.

I have rebuilt several of my Magazines in a 30 minute period. Big Phorking Deal.

Remember to keep conversations with Police to a minimum. In fact, don't talk to the Police at all.

Bob

I think the best advice your giving is not to talk to LEOs if you can avoid it, but I'm not sure how passive cops will be if they spot something suspicious in your car which will give them a reasonable excuse to search your vehicle, and If they happen to find a post ban hi-cap in your car I'm sure they ask you about it.
I never said they where illegal to own and I've seen many police officers at gun ranges and off duty officers shooting there. I would also never refer to them as clowns since they put their lives on the line for us daily just the same as our military. To think LEO or BATF officers don't know anything about Hi-cap mags, the law and when stuff was made is plain ignorant. If you feel confidant about your statement bring a hi-cap to your local PD/BATF office, tell them you assembled 100% of it form a rebuild kit in 30 minutes and see if they have any other questions for you. Also be sure to post your results...

[Oceanbob]

The Law is passive.

I think the best advice your giving is not to talk to LEOs if you can avoid it, but I'm not sure how passive cops will be if they spot something suspicious in your car which will give them a reasonable excuse to search your vehicle, and If they happen to find a post ban hi-cap in your car I'm sure they ask you about it.
I never said they where illegal to own and I've seen many police officers at gun ranges and off duty officers shooting there. I would also never refer to them as clowns since they put their lives on the line for us daily just the same as our military. To think LEO or BATF officers don't know anything about Hi-cap mags, the law and when stuff was made is plain ignorant. If you feel confidant about your statement bring a hi-cap to your local PD/BATF office, tell them you assembled 100% of it form a rebuild kit in 30 minutes and see if they have any other questions for you. Also be sure to post your results...

First of all the Police cannot search your vehicle without a WARRANT or GOOD probable cause. Having a High Cap magazine in your car is not a crime.
Simply REFUSE a search.

Second, since the hi-cap ban 10 years ago, not a single person has been arrested (primary) for violating the law. It has been an 'ADD ON' charge for certain Gang members who were caught with AK 47s, and 30 round mags.
But that is normal to add on several charges on a Drive By or Brandishing
Felony. It doesn't affect a man at a gun range shooting targets.

Most LEO's are FUD on the law. The Good Folks (lawyers, like Gene) at the CGF have had Off list lower weapons returned that were wrongly confiscated by LEOs and have corrected several Departments on the law. Those LEOs that grab legal weapons or scoop up magazines are Clowns in my book. Most are hard working and honest COPS but we do have these out of control CLOWN COPS that really don't know Jack-Sheet about the Penal Code.

BATF is a Federal Agency and has NO CONCERN or AUTHORITY to enforce California State Law. In 47 States you can walk into any Sporting Goods Store or GUN store and buy any magazine or 'assault' weapon you can afford.

I have more than 150 Hi Cap mags. I own 14 GLOCKS each with 6 or 8 spare magazines..all NORMAL capacity (more than 10 rounds, 13, 15, 17, 33 rounds)

I shoot at ON TARGET, sometimes during POLICE Training sessions with COPS in the next lane over, many who want to shoot my GLOCK 20 with it's 20 round magazine....or my AR-15 SR-1 and it's 30 round magazine....never once do they ask about them. No one will ask.

If I showed up at the front desk of a police station and mentioned I just
rebuilt my GLOCK 17 mag with this new mag in my hand they would say
'Nice Job'.

The burden of proof for any wrongdoing is ON THE STATE. They are not looking for you or cruising Gun Ranges trying to find violators.

Most problems can be prevented by not talking to the Police at all.

A review:

It is perfectly legal - no restrictions at all in the Penal Code - to own and possess and use those "large-capacity magazines" in any gun*, at any time, under any circumstances where it is legal to use a gun. Ownership, possession and use of "large-capacity magazines" are not crimes in PC; there is no section under which you could be charged.

Those who own "large-capacity magazines" are not required to keep records or receipts, and not required to explain how they got them.

Understand that last Statement....get clear...you are not required to explain HOW YOU GOT THEM.

Don't talk to the Police part 1







Flex your rights



Everyone should watch the above videos if you're into shooting sports, transporting guns or using hi cap magazines. Have your kids watch it also.

[Flyingpootang]

Bob as stated "if they see something suspicious in your car" that is probable cause to do a search. If you think the BATF doesn't enforce CA state law your are sadly mistaken. As stated before go down to the nearest field office and tell them you just manufactured a new Hi-cap mag out of a repair kit in 30 minutes, get a nice job from them, then post your results. As the saying goes the proof is in the pudding. If not then your post don't hold water My post don't reflect weather or not owning a hi cap is illegal or not, so I'm not sure why you keep posting it. As for the other 47 states they doesn't affect CA, so it really doesn't make a difference what is legal elsewhere. Even though the law may be passive, I wouldn't advice anyone to tempt fate, but in your case "prove me wrong". If you need an address to your local BATF office LMK, I'll be happy to provide it to you.

Here's a great idea, make a vid of your visit to the BATF. It be great reference for all of us.