Now that I acutally have a CZ

[rojocorsa]

Well, I finally have one and it sure is a fine rifle. Definitely shoots better than I do.

I don't like how I shot at all. Granted I did plink at the steel plates more than I shot at targets. That's because I felt rushed today. Especially because you pay for your time in Laguna Seca. I think that's psychologically affecting me so I wasn't fully relaxed like I should have been. Ideally, I want to shoot somewhere where I can feel like I have all the time in the world. I know first hand that when I shoot slower, I do better. Perhaps another psychological flaw that I had today was the fact that knowing that there was a whole damn box of .22LR was also making me shoot faster than I should have (when I was actually shooting at the targets). I need to pretend that each of my rounds costs $2 or something like that. Maybe I'll try doing it single shot next time. (Oh, and I now understand why real target rifles are only single shot).

Another personal flaw that I think I had today was not pulling the trigger properly because it was so light---somehow I felt like my gun was moving around despite shooting supported on the bench. I meant to also shoot prone, but like I said, I felt rushed and didn't bother. I shall next time. So either I was jerking the trigger (which is something I try not to do) or the "technical recoil" of the gun made it feel like it moved around when I shot. I am wondering if a longer trigger pull might help my case. And if it can't be made longer, maybe somehow a little bit heaver, like a Garand's?

The gun itself is nice, and it shoots nice. The first time I put in the bolt on Wednesday night, it was rough as hell, but now it has smoothed out so it feels good. I like the clean ejection too. I let americigerm fire the rifle, and he liked it. Even said the beech stock was nice. The sights are fine though I still have to "find" the sweetspot for ideal head placement. I think I was having problems with that today which was making my sights look a little blurred. I still need to learn the behavior of the sights in relation to where it hits. 50 yards is roughly 45-46, and I don't know if it has anything to do with the way I was printing. If the target were to be imposed on a Cartesian plane, all my shots for all my targets would be strictly on the second quadrant--or the one where sine is positive--or the upper left hand corner. I am not sure if I am shooting to the left because of my trigger pull or whatever else. But I shot consistently in that upper left corner. There was some wind--could that be it? Or is wind even a factor @ 50 yards.

The load I used was a Winchester Super X copper plated 36gr HP "high velocity" (I think they're all Super-X though it came in a white, not silver box. That's what the headstamp says anyway. It wasn't the 333 round box, for the record). There is some fouling in my bore right now but I suspect that it's just unburned powder.

The target I was shooting was a square sheet that measures 21"x21." On it are five separate circles; two on the top, two on the bottom, and one in the middle. These measure 6" in diameter.

Here was the first target that I shot at.



I can't remember is this was the second or third target (shot a total of 30 rounds, 10 per target).



Anyway, the bottom 5-shot group here is the best one from today, IMO. It measures a little under an inch from the central points of the two farthest holes. :hide

Here is the third (or second target). You can acutally see a flyer on the left edge of the image, otherwise, there are nine holes.


I think I can do better next time and I know I need to pace myself.

[G-forceJunkie]

Buy some Wolf Match Target ammo and really see what it can do.

[rojocorsa]

Admittedly, since I guess I am still a "novice" shooter, I need way much more practice.


How is this ammo compared to Remington Golden Turds?

[rojocorsa]

Targets shot last week on the prone. Showing some improvement.

I'd say it's time to redeem myself. Shot today @ what is supposed to be 50yds (I can't believe how short that actually is). But they tell me it's 50. The watershed moment came when I put my rear sight down to the lowest level (25m) and did a 6'o clock hold on the circles. You'll see that my first target was full of holes, but clear of the black (both clusters are circled by my pen).

I guess my groups were decent today, but I think I STILL need to improve on trigger control and follow through. (Trust me, I've come a looooong way since the first time I shot a rifle at scout camp in 2004).

I am fairly satisfied overall, but I think that towards the end, I stepped up my pace and my groups opened up some. I can still see that the metal in the bore is shiny, and the only fouling there is is probably unburnt powder. I am not concerned about it at all.



You can see that my overshot group is tighter, because I was shooting more conservatively today. I was lucky that there weren't that many people today (and it wasn't that noisy) until a guy came and shot an AR next to me (including brass landing where I was). Otherwise it was fine, but I admit to shooting faster towards the end.




First bullseye with my CZ. ;D


I would assume that was my best overall group today. I'm certain it happened at around 3/4 of the time I was there before I was done. By this time, I had been shifting around trying to find a good, stable position.


Last target. It's OK, but at least by now I now where to hold the target and got my elevation correct.

All shooting I did today was in the supported prone with sandbags.

What's weird is that the rear sight setting will be on the black if I leave it @ 25m, even though I was supposedly shooting at 50yds. I still can't believe that's 50yds. I did notice that like last week, my shots are hitting more on the left than on the right. It doesn't bother me, but I thought it was worth pointing out. I'm still working on shrinking those groups before I touch it.

And being the cheap bastard I am, I decided I don't want any aftermarket sights for the time being. I want teh ammos!

[iareConfusE]

Get an optic on your rifle. Then you'll be able to easily tell if it's your trigger pull. Iron sights won't get you grouping super tight at 50 yards because there's always going to be a very slight deviation in your point of aim. You aren't always going to point that barrel in the exact same spot as your prior shot.

[Izzy43]

Not bad shooting with iron sights on a new rifle. I have a CZ UltrLux, similiar to yours just a longer barrel. It really likes Federal Automatch. I get it at Walmart locally here in SoCal. Worth a try in that rifle. If you feel the trigger is light you should try pulling the trigger with just the tip of your finger, not in the crease of the first knuckle. That will help you to keep from moving the rifle to the left when you shoot. With iron sights a six o'clock hold always works best for me otherwise the front sight post covers too much of the targets center and its hard to tell where I am really aiming. My groups shrunk alot when I used the 6 o'clock hold.

Good luck with the new rifle, you made a very good choice in getting a CZ. They are real shooters out of the box.

You might also want to go to rimfirecentral.com and do a search in the CZ forum for a "YoDave trigger kit". Eliminates all the creep and allows you to get the trigger pull down to 1 lb or less and is available for $20 on eBay. Great for target shooting and you can always adjust it heavier if you use the rifle to hunt.

[tkrrox]

yo dave trigger kit on ebay...i used a eric brooks and it took out all creep...the best trigger out of all my guns (i've since heard people are having a lot of problems with getting kits from eric-that's why i suggested the other)

[WDE91]

do this trigger job from my San Diego shooting buddy All4fun

http://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=197288

Also I suggest you join up at RFC they have a very large CZ crowd
good people and all questions can be answered there

[Izzy43]

I suggest that you go to Rimfirecentral.com and look at the installation process for the YoDave trigger kit. I have no interest in selling these kits or any affiliation with the supplier. It is a simple kit that takes about 10 minutes to install, no gunsmithing type work required. It removes all the creep in the trigger and gives you a lighter, fully adjustable pull.

Please do as you wish but this kit is so simple to install and works great. I have one in my CZ UltrLux.

[dfletcher]

Exactly which CZ model 452 do you have?

The one deficiency they all have is the trigger. Instead of the kit I put in a softer trigger spring on all my 452s, have no idea what it's supposed to fit but it works great. I stoned the sear engagement to get the best pull, to me the engagement is worked on in about the same fashion as a Winchester 70.

There are some interesting, but kind of long winded, videos on You Tube regarding the 452 trigger.

[olhunter]

Forgive me if you already know this, but...


Focus on the front sight, not the target or rear sight.

Relax. The only tension anywhere should be on the trigger.

Breathe out half a breath and hold it while squeezing the trigger. If you feel yourself tensing up again, relax again.

Your CZ should be shooting groups that will fit into the center red circle at 100 yards.

Try different ammo. .22's are picky. When you get the right one, you'll know it.

Try a scope.

Have your eyes checked. You wouldn't believe the number of people who think they see fine, but don't.

Work on your natural point of aim. Kinda hard to explain, but get into your shooting position, close your eyes and totally relax. Open your eyes and don't move and see where you're aiming. Now scoot your whole body around so the sights are pointing as close to the target without putting any other input into it. Then close your eyes and try it again. Now when you get your sights on target, your adjustments are small and you remove tension from your position. Your goal is to be on target, or very close to it, without pushing, pulling or twisting anything.

[Izzy43]

Forgive me if you already know this, but...


Focus on the front sight, not the target or rear sight.

Relax. The only tension anywhere should be on the trigger.

Breathe out half a breath and hold it while squeezing the trigger. If you feel yourself tensing up again, relax again.

Your CZ should be shooting groups that will fit into the center red circle at 100 yards.

Try different ammo. .22's are picky. When you get the right one, you'll know it.

Try a scope.

Have your eyes checked. You wouldn't believe the number of people who think they see fine, but don't.

Work on your natural point of aim. Kinda hard to explain, but get into your shooting position, close your eyes and totally relax. Open your eyes and don't move and see where you're aiming. Now scoot your whole body around so the sights are pointing as close to the target without putting any other input into it. Then close your eyes and try it again. Now when you get your sights on target, your adjustments are small and you remove tension from your position. Your goal is to be on target, or very close to it, without pushing, pulling or twisting anything.

Great advice.

[rojocorsa]

Not bad shooting with iron sights on a new rifle. I have a CZ UltrLux, similiar to yours just a longer barrel. It really likes Federal Automatch. I get it at Walmart locally here in SoCal. Worth a try in that rifle. If you feel the trigger is light you should try pulling the trigger with just the tip of your finger, not in the crease of the first knuckle. That will help you to keep from moving the rifle to the left when you shoot. With iron sights a six o'clock hold always works best for me otherwise the front sight post covers too much of the targets center and its hard to tell where I am really aiming. My groups shrunk alot when I used the 6 o'clock hold.

Good luck with the new rifle, you made a very good choice in getting a CZ. They are real shooters out of the box.

You might also want to go to rimfirecentral.com and do a search in the CZ forum for a "YoDave trigger kit". Eliminates all the creep and allows you to get the trigger pull down to 1 lb or less and is available for $20 on eBay. Great for target shooting and you can always adjust it heavier if you use the rifle to hunt.

I'll look out for that ammo, thanks. That first batch of .22 I got last September is only here because that's what was cheapest at the Cow Palace show that month. I think we can agree that it's "good enough" for general shooting requirements. Besides, I still have 3 out of 5 boxes before I need to buy more ammo. (And thank god that AB 962 is dead).

Even though I am not the best shooter, I found that I also shot best using the 6 oclock hold. (which is now standard procedure to me) I've actually been using the pad of my finger to disengage the trigger since day 1. Maybe I need a little more finesse. I like how it feels and it has these inherent trigger pulling advantages as bonus.


And I've seen your groups with the Ultra Lux on the match threads, not even funny.

I knew I made the right choice in getting the CZ (was mosr likely going to buy an el-cheapo Savage Mk.II (which I know is a very good choice in of itself, but it's was just too ugly for y tastes and it did not have the sights that the CZ does. The sights were the final nail in the coffin that warranted my decision. I couldn't be happier with the 452 right now. I just wish mags were cheap and plentiful.

[rojocorsa]

Exactly which CZ model 452 do you have?

The one deficiency they all have is the trigger. Instead of the kit I put in a softer trigger spring on all my 452s, have no idea what it's supposed to fit but it works great. I stoned the sear engagement to get the best pull, to me the engagement is worked on in about the same fashion as a Winchester 70.

There are some interesting, but kind of long winded, videos on You Tube regarding the 452 trigger.

I have what's listed as the CZ-452 Special Military Trainer on the CZ.usa website.

It's just a beech stocked version the CZ-452 Lux (which has walnut). I really don't care about the wood and I heard that beech was stronger anyway and most importantly, CHEAPER, which is why I got it. And my stock looks plenty decent, so it's not really an issue.

















I guess I would upgrade the trigger in the future (don't feel like doing it now because of $$$$), but I also keep hearing about action screw upgrades. Are those worht looking at too, when the time comes to upgrade?



Also, a small question to you CZ connousieurs...are these free floated at all? (Not that it really matters to me right now).

[ChaparralCommando]

I have the Trainer too. I did a trigger improvement job on it using a kit. The method is not as consistent (tried it on another 452 and had some creep) as the Timney replacement, which my dad put on his silhouette 452 American. I always shoot subsonic ammunition, which gives better results. Wolf Match Target, Aguila subsonics (all varieties have been fine), or Remington Subsonic all perform well. You can't free float the Trainer or Lux since they have the forward screw. You can test to see if the stock is touching in other areas, though I don't remember if I ever did that. Action screws you can get in Allen hex, which I think is just for aesthetics if you like the different screw type and will be taking it apart often. If you are sticking to open sights, I would recommend seeing about the ghost ring rear blade, which I got years ago from Eric Brookes, who I think is no longer in business though. Super nice for target shooting if you can find it.