10/22 odd happenings [contacted Mueller, emails inside]

[xxdabroxx]

So i took out the rimfires yesterday and my 10/22 was not even on paper at 100. So i finally found where it was hitting, about 18" low at 100 yards.

Then i cranked the adjustment up as high as it would go to get the difference down to about 12" low at 100 yards. I cannot for the life of me figure out what could have changed this drastically since i last shot the rifle. I field stripped it, looked it over and everything felt tight. Reassembled the 10/22 and there was no change.

The barrel is still floated in the stock so that isnt it.
Did this with multiple ammo types as well.
Found a TAC SOL 15 MOA scope base, but i dont think that would quite cut it.

Mueller APV scope
Cheapo scope base
Laminate stock
10/22T barrel
Tinkered with trigger group

anyone ever have something like this happen before, any thoughts. Right now i am guessing that the scope took a dump.

[xxdabroxx]

i'm guessing scope is junk, sent mueller an email. We shall see how it goes.

Mueller is quick:

Hi Dave,
Over 99% of the issues we see with the APV and 10/22's is due to barrel droop.. Unfortunately, with the limited over-all adjustment range of 45moa, the APV really doesn't have enough internal adjustment range to compensate for it... Its possible over time, it may have dropped a little more, even with the v-block being tight, hence the reason you are shooting even lower now.. There are other scopes on the market with more internal adjustment so you could install a different scope, which may allow you to reach zero but there is another solution. The solution is to use Burris Signature Zee rings with off-set inserts. These rings will help you get more elevation on the scope. We can check the scope here if you would like but I don't think we have ever found one that shooting low was due to the scope itself.. The only other time we see a scope shooting low is when it gets dropped and the front part of the scope gets bent down slightly.

If you want us to check it out, just let us know

Thanks again
Mueller Optics

Hi Dave,
Remove the top halves of the rings and then spin the scope while its sitting in the lower half of the rings and watch the front of the scope to see if it wobbles up and down as you spin it.. If its bent, it will wobble.. Its even easier to see the wobble if you look at the section between the top of the barrel and the bottom of the objective. Then just watch the gap to see if it gets bigger or smaller as you spin it.. If its straight, the gap will remain the same.

Thanks and good luck!!
Mueller Optics

i fear it is bent, but have not looked yet.

[maxicon]

Don't forget to give the scope a good shake. That's how I found the loose objective lens in my Mueller Sport Dot. They were very good at replacing it under warranty (luckily I had the original receipt still, even though I bought it used), and I got a new one pretty quickly.

ETA: Barrel droop on the 10/22? I must have missed this as a common problem...

[xxdabroxx]

i could see it happening, but not to the extent of +/- 18 MOA

[domokun]

If it isn't the scope, try replacing the cheapo scope base with a 15 or 20 MOA scope base.

[nikki#2]

Hmmmm... interesting. I have an APV, but luckly no problems yet. They're made in China, and I've heard their QA is weak, but Mueller compensates for that issue with good customer service. 2 additional thoughts come to mind before shipping it off for service. One doesn't require shooting the gun, the other does:

1) Are you able to optically center the scope with a mirror?

Dial the magnification to the minimum, then hold the scope's object lens firmly and squarely on a mirror and then looked into the scope. You should see two cross hairs. Rotate the windage and elevation adjustments and see if you can align the two sets of crosshair. Rotate the scope in the mirror to ensure it is aligned all the way around. Not perfect, but you should be able to optically center the recticle pretty close, very quickly.

2) Did you try turning the scope in it's rings to see the effect?

You could loosen the scope rings enough to give the scope a quarter turn to the left, then re-tighten the rings. This positions the original windage adjustment knob on top of your scope for use as the elevation knob. It also positions the original elevation knob to now serve as the windage adjustment. Shoot and observe the effect.

Good Luck!

[djslik]

I have a mueller APV that has been tested on my Remington .223 Bolt action at 100 yards no problems, 10/22 at 50 yards no problem, and just this weekend it sat on top of my Fulton Armory .308 and it did fine at 100 yards. Mine has been taken on and off several times and I have cranked the dials from end to end and everything else is still fine. You should be able to get it replaced and hopefully you don't get a dud.

[nikki#2]

I have a mueller APV that has been tested on my Remington .223 Bolt action at 100 yards no problems, 10/22 at 50 yards no problem, and just this weekend it sat on top of my Fulton Armory .308 and it did fine at 100 yards. Mine has been taken on and off several times and I have cranked the dials from end to end and everything else is still fine. You should be able to get it replaced and hopefully you don't get a dud.

Good that you experienced No Problems on the .308. I see where Mueller states that "The APV is designed for smaller caliber rifles"
and expressly Does Not recommended it for heavy magnum rifles.

http://www.muelleroptics.com/products/MAPV451440.html

[xxdabroxx]

I am hoping that it is something arbitrary that will show itself when i get a little deeper into it. I fear it may be the scope being bent somehow, but hope not.

[nikki#2]

I am hoping that it is something arbitrary that will show itself when i get a little deeper into it. I fear it may be the scope being bent somehow, but hope not.

Please keep us posted. I have been recommending the APV to friends...

[xxdabroxx]

me too, i think worst case i may have done it when installing my flip up caps but i hope it is not that fragile because i was pretty gentle with it. That is just the most stress i have ever put on it.

[maxicon]

Please keep us posted. I have been recommending the APV to friends...

The APV's got a good enough reputation in general, especially as a rimfire scope. Like Millett, the main downside is decent rather than great QA, and the support is good. It's the price you pay for value scopes these days.

[WyoDuner]

Hmm... Could it be something besides the scope? If it were me, I'd take the stock off and make sure that something isn't amiss. Only thing I can think of is that the barrel block and alan screws maybe came loose or get jarred askew from a drip or something??? Kind of unlikely but it would be easy to check.

[djslik]

The scope is now sitting on top of my Bolt Action Remington 700 .308 ready to go this weekend. I'll let you know if it breaks.

[Calif Mini]

10/22 odd happenings

So i took out the rimfires yesterday and my 10/22 was not even on paper at 100. So i finally found where it was hitting, about 18" low at 100 yards.

Then i cranked the adjustment up as high as it would go to get the difference down to about 12" low at 100 yards. I cannot for the life of me figure out what could have changed this drastically since i last shot the rifle. I field stripped it, looked it over and everything felt tight. Reassembled the 10/22 and there was no change.

The barrel is still floated in the stock so that isnt it.
Did this with multiple ammo types as well.
Found a TAC SOL 15 MOA scope base, but i dont think that would quite cut it.

Mueller APV scope
Cheapo scope base
Laminate stock
10/22T barrel
Tinkered with trigger group

anyone ever have something like this happen before, any thoughts. Right now i am guessing that the scope took a dump.

xxdabroxx

Did you find out your issue with the barrel droop or scope?

Did you find a scope base that will work? I made one for my 10/22 and it works fine for me. Mine is around 15 moa. I also made a barrel retainer block which I added a set screw that is tensioned after the barrel retainer bolts are tightened. This helps by keeping the barrel in a more stable position(less droop). Be careful not to just wedge a shim above the original retainer as this may cause the block to tension the barrel a little lower and cause some droop. IMHO. I have seen this on a couple 10/22's.

Let us all know what you find as your problem as well as the solution.

Good luck. Ed