Ruger 10/22 Not Holding Zero

[PistolPete94]

I got a Ruger 10/22 Takedown model from Big 5 in January. At first it was a fun little gun to shoot with iron sights. My dad got me a simmons scope for it and it was going good at first, but when I finally got it zeroed in and shot the next group it was off. Then when I made adjustments to the scope it stayed the same. No matter what I did it wouldn't hold zero.

I went to Youtube for advice and tossed the original Ruger rail accordingly. Got a brand new picatinny rail, and had the same results. My dad redid the scope and put locktite on for good measure and we really tightened the rings to the rail. No luck.

We figured it was the scope. Got a new UTG with quick release rings. Same procedure. Centered, zeroed, un-zeroed, off-on-locktite, and still not zeroed in. We gave it a deep cleaning, oiled it, reset the tightness on the takedown part. Still no progress. User error??

Next step: Bipod. Holding the gun as still as possible and still nothing. Everytime we get it to zero the next shots are way off.

I've been using Winchester 36 grain ammo also from Big 5. I've gone through 4 boxes of 222 so I don't know if their quality control would be the problem or if it is the gun itself. Any help would be appreciated.


TLDR: 2 brand new scopes, cleaned regularly and thoroghly, got bipod, and 10/22 Takedown won't hold zero. Help?

[steel30]

I notice you mention a bipod which would be my first question, what is your shooting stance and how far out are your first shots to zero in the scope? I usually will use a shot bag from a table and keep it around 25 yards to get it zerod on paper and move out accordingly. Scope??

[Carsgunsandchics]

Does it stay zeroed with the iron sights? Because I'd seriously have doubt in anything UTG let alone a scope. Borrow a scope from someone if possible as well as non UTG anything nor NcStar rings.

[PistolPete94]

I notice you mention a bipod which would be my first question, what is your shooting stance and how far out are your first shots to zero in the scope? I usually will use a shot bag from a table and keep it around 25 yards to get it zerod on paper and move out accordingly. Scope??

First off I'm at an indoor range so no wind or anything like that. It's a 100 yard range and I usually start at 50 yards. This is the minimum when sitting down. There's a table and I bring up a chair. I was using a bag at first, but I figured the bipod would be better.
If I do it around 40 yards it's okay but still not where I'd want it. Everyone else I see on Youtube gets groups within a nickel so I figure that's what it should be at

[ojisan]

Make sure your barrel ring nut is properly adjusted.
If not, the barrel can wiggle.

[PistolPete94]

Does it stay zeroed with the iron sights? Because I'd seriously have doubt in anything UTG let alone a scope. Borrow a scope from someone if possible as well as non UTG anything nor NcStar rings.

I originally had a Simmons scope and both scopes had pretty good reviews or else we wouldn't have gotten them. The Simmons came with a crappy rail which I replaced. I'm not sure if that helps.
I haven't tried just the iron sights with the bipod, but when I used to use them standing at 25 yards it wouldn't be that bad. At 40 yards it would be a little off but I figured that was just user error

[PistolPete94]

Make sure your barrel ring nut is properly adjusted.
If not, the barrel can wiggle.

Yeah I did that off the bat and just recently redid it to make sure. The manual said to hand tighten it with the gun together. Then take off the barrel and turn it 2 more clicks.

[FiremanBob]

We need more info. A precise description of the situation is required for on-line diagnosis.

How big are the groups? Perhaps the problem isn't holding zero, but groups too large to identify the zero? If the groups are abnormally large, the problem might not be the rifle or scope. Also, within a nickle at 50 is unusually good for an unmodified 10/22. Most out-of-the box 10/22s shoot within 2-3 MOA, which is 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards. Holding zero means you have tight groups, but the location of the groups changes when you change position, remove and re-install the barrel, or remove and reinstall the scope, or if the scope is malfunctioning.

If the groups are tight, how far apart are they? Where is the second group compared to the first?

After you adjust the scope, do you tap the knob to make sure the reticle moved? It's not unusual with cheap scopes for the reticle to stick, so your turning the knob isn't actually moving the thread. As said above, I wouldn't trust any inexpensive, Chinese-made optic to hold zero.

The only position for examining a scope or sight zero problem is securely on a bench rest or bipod. Standing has far too much wobble to analyze groups, unless you are a Master-level position shooter.

[PistolPete94]

We need more info. A precise description of the situation is required for on-line diagnosis.

How big are the groups? Perhaps the problem isn't holding zero, but groups too large to identify the zero? If the groups are abnormally large, the problem might not be the rifle or scope. Also, within a nickle at 50 is unusually good for an unmodified 10/22. Most out-of-the box 10/22s shoot within 2-3 MOA, which is 1-1.5" groups at 50 yards. Holding zero means you have tight groups, but the location of the groups changes when you change position, remove and re-install the barrel, or remove and reinstall the scope, or if the scope is malfunctioning.

If the groups are tight, how far apart are they? Where is the second group compared to the first?

After you adjust the scope, do you tap the knob to make sure the reticle moved? It's not unusual with cheap scopes for the reticle to stick, so your turning the knob isn't actually moving the thread. As said above, I wouldn't trust any inexpensive, Chinese-made optic to hold zero.

The only position for examining a scope or sight zero problem is securely on a bench rest or bipod. Standing has far too much wobble to analyze groups, unless you are a Master-level position shooter.

I was previously using a bench with bags for stability. I am currently using a bipod.
As far as the groups go, after I adjust the scope it will hit where I want it to for 1 or 2 shots then when I shoot again it will be off sometimes up to a foot. Sometimes if I continue to fire it will stay in the new "off" position other times it will go elsewhere. Sometimes one shot will be on target and the next way off. It's hard to give you specifics because it is pretty random. I usually go every other weekend and haven't noticed any patterns since I got the gun 5 months ago.

When I shoot I haven't been removing and replacing the barrel just keeping it how it is. The scope I'm currently using now also stays on the gun full time now. But I will try tapping the knob to look for movement. Like I said I have used 2 different scopes so if that is the problem it would be one hell of a coincidence.

Edit: When I am adjusting my scope I'm not always just clicking what I think will work. I usually will be looking down scope and aim where I wanted the bullet to go and click until the reticle is pointed at where the bullet went. Idk if that helps at all

[phoenixx858]

Kind of sounds like the rings on the scope may be too tight. Thin walled steel can distort under the pressure of the rings and not hold zero. This is a prety common issue and I speak from experience.
2 cents

[RawHP]

Not sure you have this issue as well, and/or if you checked this before you tried the steps you described taking:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=571152

[FeuerFrei]

Replace the scope or keep chasing an impossible to catch accuracy problem by doing everything but replacing the scope.

[FiremanBob]

Ok, that helps. First couple of shots start as a good group, then the next shot is wildly off-target.

Does the rifle have this problem when you shoot from the bipod with the iron sights? If so, you have a rifle problem or a shooter problem. If not, you have a scope or scope mount problem.

[RawHP]

I was previously using a bench with bags for stability. I am currently using a bipod.
As far as the groups go, after I adjust the scope it will hit where I want it to for 1 or 2 shots then when I shoot again it will be off sometimes up to a foot.

I would first check to see if you're barrel is shifting. Dusting off my highschool geometry, it seems like if at 50 yards, or 150 feet, and your point of impact is shifting over 1 foot, then if the problem is the barrel shifting, then it only needs to shift by 0.38 degrees (inverse-tangent of 1/150). That may not seem like a lot, but another way to look at it, if your barrel is 18 inches, or 1.5 feet, then the amount the tip of the barrel needs to shift relative to the action is 1.5/150 feet x 1ft = 0.01 feet; 0.01' equals 0.12", or just under 1/8". That means if you have someone hold the action very still, or if you don't have someone to help, you could put your rifle on the table on its side and hold it down, and try grabbing the tip of the barrel and see if you can wiggle it by 1/8". You should be able to detect that kind of deflection.

If you don't detect the barrel shifting then check the mount and rings, by trying to wiggle the scope. Using the same math, you should be able to wiggle the scope something around 1/16" to have that type of shift in point of impact at 50 yards. You'd definitely be able to detect if your scope was that poorly mounted.

If you can't detect the scope wiggling, then you either have a really messed up crown on the barrel, or the cross hairs in the scope are defective. But since you said it happened on more than one scope, and as long as you aren't overtightening the rings on both scopes (you should be able to tell if you are crushing the scope tubes, which is easy to do on a cheaper scope), then I'd take a close look at the bore and crown of the barrel.

[rogervzv]

Make sure your barrel ring nut is properly adjusted.
If not, the barrel can wiggle.

This. I am imagining this is the issue, which is easily fixed by following Ruger's tightening procedure.