Optic for R700 AAC-SD

[The DRis]

Well the time is quickly approaching to be able to finally put an optic on my bolt gun. I have zero experience with long range shooting, which is making this process even more overwhelming and frustrating. I think I have narrowed my search down to two brands, and 4 possible models. It boils down to 2 models and MOA or MIL from each model. My budget is about $2,500 give or take a few. My uses will be long range shooting, tactical shooting matches, and possibly hunting if given the chance. If anybody has feed back on these I would appreciate it greatly.

NightForce 3.5-15x50 F1 NXS, I'm trying to decide between two reticles:
LV.5 (MOA) or NP-RF1
MLR2 (MIL)
For the NightForce I lean toward the LV.5 because it seams cleaner to me. That would lead me to MOA.

US Optics 3.2-17x44 LR-17
MDMOA (MOA)
MPR (MIL)
I like both reticles, neither seems to busy

[sunborder]

If you need to learn MOA or Mil system anyway, probably better to learn mils for long-range shooting. I learned on the MOA "system", and am learning mils now. Would have been easier to just learn mils from the start.

[Iloveguns]

If that is your Budget I would go with the Vortex Razor Gen 2. Also if you are planning on shooting tactical matches, stick with MIL based reticle. Do not get something like the LV.5. For NightForce there best reticle is the MLR2.0. You will want a little more power then those two scopes. 15x works but it leaves you wanting a little more. If you know nothing about Long Range you need to be educating yourself and reading up as much as you can.

[The DRis]

Thanks for the info. The AAC-SD is only an 20" barrel. I've heard differing opinions regarding how far I will actually be able to shoot. But I'm envisioning 500-800 yds as my max.

Is there anything in particular that makes you recommended the Vortex over NF or USO? I see the 4.5-27x56, the 3-18x50, or the 5-20x50?

[Iloveguns]

Experience with all three is why I make that opinion. All three are great companies. But almost all of us who shoot those style matches run at least 20x scopes. The new Gen 2 Razor 4.5-27 has all the great features you could want and decent glass at its price point. To get a NF at the same power you have to step up to the beast and that puts you in at the $3k mark. Not a huge fan of how the beast works. USO is just not my cup of tea. Have seen more then a fair share of them have to go back. But USO always takes care of customers scopes if there is an issue. I shot out to 1k with my 20" Rem 700. Its not ideal but it will get you there.

[ExtremeX]

If you need to learn MOA or Mil system anyway, probably better to learn mils for long-range shooting. I learned on the MOA "system", and am learning mils now. Would have been easier to just learn mils from the start.

There really isn't anything new you have to learn... if you can use one, you can use the other. Its just a different angular unit of measurement.

I'm not saying this is you, but most of the shooters I come across who have trouble with MRAD based optics, or feel they need to learn something new, are people who still think of things in inches when dealing with their dope corrections.

[sunborder]

There really isn't anything new you have to learn... if you can use one, you can use the other. Its just a different angular unit of measurement.

I'm not saying this is you, but most of the shooters I come across who have trouble with MRAD based optics, or feel they need to learn something new, are people who still think of things in inches when dealing with their dope corrections.

Have fun trying to find an "MOA Master"...Mildot Master easily available. Good luck finding information on ranging a target using MOA. Lots more information out there on using mildot/MRAD, because it is a military/LE standard.

As for "thinking in inches" that's exactly right. MOA naturally (up to a point) lends itself to clicks being a certain number of inches or easily handled fractions of inches based on approximate yardage. To people who haven't learned mils, they have to do some pretty arcane maths to figure out how many inches to come up. Most people who shoot MOA exclusively don't ever bother to think in MOA. Once you get into MRAD/Mils, you start "thinking" in mils, in terms of adjustments, partly because it *doesn't* easily translate into inches.

[ExtremeX]

Have fun trying to find an "MOA Master"...Mildot Master easily available. Good luck finding information on ranging a target using MOA. Lots more information out there on using mildot/MRAD, because it is a military/LE standard.

As for "thinking in inches" that's exactly right. MOA naturally (up to a point) lends itself to clicks being a certain number of inches or easily handled fractions of inches based on approximate yardage. To people who haven't learned mils, they have to do some pretty arcane maths to figure out how many inches to come up. Most people who shoot MOA exclusively don't ever bother to think in MOA. Once you get into MRAD/Mils, you start "thinking" in mils, in terms of adjustments, partly because it *doesn't* easily translate into inches.

You kind of missed the point… The point was, that an inch isn’t an angular unit of measurement. Both MOA and MRAD are, and because of that, everything you can do with MRAD can be done with MOA and vice versa.

I own multiple target scopes in both MOA and MRAD, and switch between them regularly… The only disadvantage I have to doing this, is when it comes time to buy a spotter with a reticle (or any other support gear for that matter). It will slowly force future purchases into one system over the other.

Your comments about ranging are asinine. Ranging a target using either system is the same… the math is not “arcane”, it’s actually the same for the most part.

Ranging using MRAD
Target Size (inches) x 27.77 / Object Size (MIL) = Range in Yards
Ranging using MOA
Target Size (inches) x 95.5 / Object Size (MOA) = Range in Yards
Reference: http://www.arcanamavens.com/LBSFiles...loads/Ranging/

I never needed to find a MOA Master or MilDot Master because I make my own MIL and MOA Relation Charts… And even if you don’t want to make your own in excel, you can find plenty of premade charts FREE on the net. (Google MIL or MOA Relation Chart)


Again MOA or MRAD, both have a corresponding size per click, be it 1/10th per click or 1/4 MOA per click… or whatever calibration the scope turrets are in. Both are still angular units of measurement and work in the exact same way.

You either move the POI 0.261” per click using MOA or 0.36” per click using 1/10th MIL. Both still have a measurement which translates just fine into inches.

Shooting at unknown distance targets and getting a correction in inches doesn’t mean anything. If the spotter accurately relays that correction in either MOA or MIL, that next shot will most likely be a hit.

Like I said, if you can use one, you can use the other... you are at absolutely zero disadvantage picking one over the other.

[The DRis]

This link was recommended to me:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

Awesome and very detailed unbiased review of 18 scopes. This pushes me more toward the Nightforce over the US Optics.

[Iloveguns]

Again if you plan on using it for Matches I would go with a higher power scope then the F1. Its a great optic but it will leave you wanting more.

[ExtremeX]

This link was recommended to me:

http://precisionrifleblog.com/2014/09/19/tactical-scopes-field-test-results-summary/

Awesome and very detailed unbiased review of 18 scopes. This pushes me more toward the Nightforce over the US Optics.

I went though and read the entire review... very impressive test and a comprehensive list of scopes. I love seeing such in depth reviews like this, thanks for the link.

But I don't completely agree with everything that was said due to my experience with some of those optics.

From an Optical Performance standpoint, my experiences better lined up with what was said in this review, which contradict some of what was said in the review you linked.

http://www.sniperforums.com/forum/optics/38510-field-test-razor-5-20-v-ss-5-20-v-dmr-g2-3-5-21-v-nxs-5-5-2-a.html

Take from it what you want. Once you start shopping for scopes in your $2500 budget, you have to start finding things to nit pick on. Things like reticle design, features, and feel of the turret very much fall into the personal preference category. I'm sure most of the people on this forum would be happy to own anything on that list.

I do agree with Iloveguns comments about magnification, and his original recommendation for the Gen II Razor 4.5-27x56. If I had $2500 burning a hole in my pocket, that scope is pretty much on the top of my list.

[Rbutler]

Thanks for the info. The AAC-SD is only an 20" barrel. I've heard differing opinions regarding how far I will actually be able to shoot. But I'm envisioning 500-800 yds as my max.

Is there anything in particular that makes you recommended the Vortex over NF or USO? I see the 4.5-27x56, the 3-18x50, or the 5-20x50?

For the distance, frank at snipershide is able to hit 1k with an 18 inch accurately all day so done discount the 20 with good ammo to beyond 1000.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15qj032UJ1I

as far as optics, the gen II vortex were recently reviewed and shown to have clearer glass then NF by just a hair and just a hair under USO with a bit more clarity but at lower price point. I own 2 nightforce nxs 5.5-22x56 and typically shoot at 11x just for ease of use on the reticle, i have no issues reaching 1k. Remember that if your shooting on a hot day your optics will magnify the mirage, 100 degrees optic at 22x and i couldnt see the target at 1k had to tone it down to 5.5

[JMP]

Experience with all three is why I make that opinion. All three are great companies. But almost all of us who shoot those style matches run at least 20x scopes. The new Gen 2 Razor 4.5-27 has all the great features you could want and decent glass at its price point. To get a NF at the same power you have to step up to the beast and that puts you in at the $3k mark. Not a huge fan of how the beast works. USO is just not my cup of tea. Have seen more then a fair share of them have to go back. But USO always takes care of customers scopes if there is an issue. I shot out to 1k with my 20" Rem 700. Its not ideal but it will get you there.

I was planning on getting a BEAST when I heard of its release, but ultimately, I found it quite disappointing. Perhaps, the expectations were set too high. It has great specs, but the turrets are awkward, and it lacks the overall quality that one would expect from a higher end optic. The glass is an improvement from their other lines, but it is nothing to write home about. A lot of the old-timers love NF, as they do probably have the best offerings in MOA scopes. However, I am of the opinion that NF is greatly over-rated. That's just my opinion, as I know others would passionately disagree.