Advice on a laser mount

[pipskicks]

I had a couple of questions. It seems as if I'm hitting a wall in how good I can get with the gun, and I thought that a laser site may let me know what I'm doing wrong to fix my mistakes. Is this thought wrong?

Also, I already have been having trouble finding a laser site, but I was wondering what anyone would suggest for a Glock 19. Importance would be cost/reliability. I want a cheaper-end, but if it jams/inaccurate it defeats the purpose.

[sloguy]

laser works well for dryfire practice. you can see what your doing with trigger pull better.

[aplinker]

Laser sights are not for improving accuracy - they're for speed and, IMHO, best for short-range fights. They can be useful for diagnosing pushing/pulling issues when dry firing.

I would suggest the money would be better spent on training, if you think you've hit a wall.

[pipskicks]

Laser sights are not for improving accuracy - they're for speed and, IMHO, best for short-range fights. They can be useful for diagnosing pushing/pulling issues when dry firing.

I would suggest the money would be better spent on training, if you think you've hit a wall.

UCLA is nice and close to me. To be honest I could dry fire, even on snap caps, right in front of a mirror and that does ok for me. I thought the laser would be helpful at a little longer distance (maybe 10+ meters), it was partially for fun, but I'd rather spend the money on ammo than laser.

So you think if I can start putting groups up at about 7 meters, but I have a lot of trouble at 10, a laser sight will not help?

[FMJBT]

Laser sights typically lose a lot of precision at longer ranges, or rather, they lack precision in the first place which only becomes apparent at longer ranges. Mounted on the frame of a semi auto, you have to take into acount the fitup between the slide and frame, and between the barrel and slide. In order for these parts to cycle freely, there has to be a certain amount of play between them. Lasers that attach using spring loaded QD mounts will only add to the equation. Add all that slop up, and you end up with a sight that is only loosely held in alignment with the bore centerline. At anything over 10 to 15 yards lasers will not offer you much over traditional open sights for the most part. Where the laser really helps is close range shooting under low light or total darkness.

Solidly mounted to a revolver though......

[maxicon]

First off, as was said, there's no substitute for training when you hit the wall. However, you can work through some of the issues on your own.

I like handgun-mounted lasers for certain types of accuracy training. What they'll do is tell you where in your shooting sequence you're losing the target. By watching the dot as you go through your trigger squeeze, you'll see if/when you're jerking, pulling, whatever, which will give you an idea of what to work on.

You'll also want to measure the baseline accuracy of your pistol at the longer distances. Start out shooting 10 rounds from a rest (I use my range bag), carefully line up the sights, and slowly squeeze the trigger. Don't pay attention to where the holes appear, just keep the sights on the bull as you slowly shoot through the entire mag.

The resulting group is about as good as you'll be able to get with that gun/ammo/distance combination.

When I get a new gun, I go through a multi-step accuracy check to figure out how accurate it is and how accurately I'm shooting it. Here's a version of my standard post on this:

Here's my 5 tier accuracy check with a new handgun. After a few trips, I have a pretty good feel for how accurate the gun is, how well it's sighted in, and how well I'm handling it. I never adjust my sights until I've shot from a rest a few times. YMMV, but this has worked very well for me over the years.

I always shoot 10 shot groups (12 shots with 6 shot revolvers) at 10 yards, though 7 yards is popular too. This helps you identify flyers and keeps you from being misled by random small groups. It also works best for me at the indoors range, since there are no weather variables. You want to use the same ammo for all stages.

You can expect each group to get larger as you go through the list, but with practice and identifying the weak spots, they'll all shrink.

- Shoot from a rest (I use my range bag), with a slow, steady trigger pull, cocking each shot with a revolver. Don't check where your shots are hitting or shift your grip, just keep the sights on the target, your eyes on the front sight, and slowly and carefully line up the sights and empty the mag. This should give you groups approaching the mechanical accuracy limit of the gun with your chosen ammo.

- Shoot with a 2 handed grip, standing, but leaning against the wall for steadiness. This helps isolate your hand/arm steadiness from your stance steadiness. Due to the angle, if you're shooting at 7 or 10 yards and your neighbor is at 25 yards, you can punch holes in his paper, or hit the wall if you're in one of the end lanes, so be aware of this.

- Shoot with a 2 handed grip, standing, unsupported. This adds in the unsteadiness of your stance.

- Shoot with a 1 handed strong hand grip, unsupported.

- Shoot with a 1 handed weak hand grip, unsupported. These last two will help identify weak spots in grip, arm strength, trigger technique, etc.

For defensive guns, I throw in another tier, which is point'n'shoot against a black silhouette. I bring up the gun without aiming (and without corrective lenses, which I use for the other shooting), point it at center of mass, and empty the mag as fast as the range rules allow. This tells you how good an ergo fit the gun is for you, and how natural a pointer it is and you are.

I consider this last to be one of the most important, since you won't always be able to use a strong stance with careful aiming in a crisis. I've got several guns that are very accurate from a careful stance but are all over the place in unaimed shooting. My primary defense guns are the ones that give me nice, small groups even when I don't aim, and different guns will do this for different people.