Ok... legal or illegal?

[Jason25]

School me please!



I'm not very savvy when it comes to this area, checked out some threads about NV and understand it's a Def no go for hunting. How about possession?

Reason being, let's just say I know someone out of state that was able to get his paws on this. No, this is not mine nor is it in my possession Mr. Undercover forum lurker. What someone would ever need it for is beyond me. Definitely strikes you with the wow factor and I guess to each his own.

[Whitefang]

PC 468. Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of,
conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a
misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars
($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one
year, or by both such fine and imprisonment.
As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device
or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm
which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and
electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually
determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime.
This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession
of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United
States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement
officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the
enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the
use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for
scientific research or educational purposes.

[Jason25]

Huh... I believe he's on a boating trip

[Whitefang]

Possession is illegal in California. It is a misdemeanor just reread what I posted

[RickD427]

Possession is illegal in California. It is a misdemeanor just reread what I posted

Sir,

Please read Penal Code section 466 more closely.

It's difficult to tell from the photo, but the device shown in the OP's posting appears to be legal to possess.

PC 466 prohibits devices that use a projected infrared light source in conjunction with an electronic telescope.

The pictured device appears to be an early generation night vision scope. These scopes only amplify existing light sources. They are passive devices.

So long as the pictured device does not emit an infrared light, it is legal to possess.

[krwada]

That device appears to be CA legal

It appears to be an early night vision, or a light amplifying device. It is NOT a FLIR type device which is expressly forbidden as stated in the PC earlier in this thread.

[Jason25]

NV seems to more more of a nightmare than nightvision. So many fine lines...

[Merc1138]

It appears to be an early night vision, or a light amplifying device. It is NOT a FLIR type device which is expressly forbidden as stated in the PC earlier in this thread.

FLIR isn't banned in the PC either

Read the sticky thread at the top of the forum people.

[krwada]

Oh ... I thought active devices were illegal here in California.

Say ... another question ... Does this mean, I can have a FLIR attached optics and use an infrared emitting spotlight? ... I mean just so long as the two are not in anyway attached ... Is this legal?

Thanks!

[12voltguy]

Oh ... I thought active devices were illegal here in California.

Say ... another question ... Does this mean, I can have a FLIR attached optics and use an infrared emitting spotlight? ... I mean just so long as the two are not in anyway attached ... Is this legal?

Thanks!

I think so, but they is a wattage it can't be above
SOMEONE WHO KNOWS FOR SURE WILL CHIME IN

[Merc1138]

Oh ... I thought active devices were illegal here in California.

Say ... another question ... Does this mean, I can have a FLIR attached optics and use an infrared emitting spotlight? ... I mean just so long as the two are not in anyway attached ... Is this legal?

Thanks!

FLIR sells plenty of devices that do not have IR illuminators(I don't think they even sell anything with an IR illuminator attached, since wouldn't that screw up the image anyway?). I'm not sure you're on the same page as the rest of us regarding what FLIR is.

https://www.flir.com

If you're asking about using an NV optic and separate IR illuminator, like goggles and an IR light on the rifle, sure. You could probably also use an IR illuminator mounted to a helmet and an NV device on a rifle, but that seems like a cumbersome mess since it would be easy for the head mounted illuminator to get knocked out of the way.

You've also got to ask yourself, since you can't hunt with 'em in CA, whether or not you really want to dump the money on what is effectively going to be a toy.

[krwada]

FLIR

FLIR sells plenty of devices that do not have IR illuminators(I don't think they even sell anything with an IR illuminator attached, since wouldn't that screw up the image anyway?). I'm not sure you're on the same page as the rest of us regarding what FLIR is.

https://www.flir.com

If you're asking about using an NV optic and separate IR illuminator, like goggles and an IR light on the rifle, sure. You could probably also use an IR illuminator mounted to a helmet and an NV device on a rifle, but that seems like a cumbersome mess since it would be easy for the head mounted illuminator to get knocked out of the way.

You've also got to ask yourself, since you can't hunt with 'em in CA, whether or not you really want to dump the money on what is effectively going to be a toy.

Indeed, I appear to NOT be on the same page. I am an engineer. An EE to be exact.

To me ... FLIR is an acronym. It stands for:
Forward
Looking
Infra-
Red

I have worked on FLIR systems since the very early days of the technology of the late 1970's to the early 1980's.

And no ... I was not thinking about attaching a headlamp to a helmet ... I was thinking about using a large infrared spot-light attached to the top of a truck ... or something along those lines.

However ... since hunting with this kind of technology is (illegal???) in California ... it appears to all be moot anyhow.

Say ... Is night hunting illegal in California today?

I remember hunting jackrabbits in the middle of the night using very bright spotlights mounted on the top of a pickup truck while using shotguns ... we used to do this a very long time ago out in the Central Valley.

Is this illegal now?

[Merc1138]

Indeed, I appear to NOT be on the same page. I am an engineer. An EE to be exact.

To me ... FLIR is an acronym. It stands for:
Forward
Looking
Infra-
Red

I have worked on FLIR systems since the very early days of the technology of the late 1970's to the early 1980's.

And no ... I was not thinking about attaching a headlamp to a helmet ... I was thinking about using a large infrared spot-light attached to the top of a truck ... or something along those lines.

However ... since hunting with this kind of technology is (illegal???) in California ... it appears to all be moot anyhow.

Say ... Is night hunting illegal in California today?

I remember hunting jackrabbits in the middle of the night using very bright spotlights mounted on the top of a pickup truck while using shotguns ... we used to do this a very long time ago out in the Central Valley.

Is this illegal now?

Sure, you could attach an IR spotlight to a truck and use an NV optic on the rifle, that would be legal.

But then you've still got the question of "what can you actually use it for in CA?" The DFG regulations(hell, are they even called the DFG anymore?) are a mess that I'm not familiar enough with to be able to give you an answer that I would be satisfied with in following myself, so I'm not going to bother trying. They're expensive toys that don't have much use outside of nighttime target shooting/training, and if people are willing to drop the amount of cash needed for decent NV optics for that, good for them.

And yes, that's the same acronym that the company FLIR uses. However when discussing the products on a gun forum, things like this come to mind: http://flir.com/cvs/americas/en/pers...view/?id=62677

Although ATN seems to have a lot more options available, all of which also appear to be perfectly legal in CA at a glance: http://www.atncorp.com/thermal-night-vision

Something like this on the other hand would be illegal in CA with the emitter attached: http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hunti...pe/1617806.uts

[goodlookin1]

FLIR (the company/brand) is not illegal. It is completely different technology than standard nightvision devices, illuminated or not. I dont know of anyone that uses the acronym "FLIR" and not mean the Thermal technology.

FLIR cores passively sense HEAT, not light. Thermal optics are completely legal to possess and use (except for hunting AFAIK), due to the fact that they use no projected/active light source.

I will repost what Quiet posted long ago for IR based nightvision:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=4952092&postcount=24

If the night vision device is passive IR and does not have magnification and is not used in conjunction with an IR illuminator, then it is legal.

The law [PC 468] was written by people who did not know how a night vision device worked and were relying on stuff they saw in the movies and how Korean War era active IR night vision scopes worked. The law has never been updated to keep up with technology.

Summary...
Active IR scope with magnification = illegal
Active IR scope with no magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification = legal
Passive IR scope with magnification and an IR illuminator = illegal
Passive IR scope with no magnifcation = legal
Passive IR scope with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Active IR goggles with magnification = legal
Active IR goggles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with magnification and an IR illuminator = legal
Passive IR googles with no magnification = legal
Passive IR goggles with no magnification and an IR illuminator = legal

Part in bold defines what is illegal.
Penal Code 468
Any person who knowingly buys, sells, receives, disposes of, conceals, or has in his possession a sniperscope shall be guilty of a misdemeanor, punishable by a fine not to exceed one thousand dollars ($1,000) or by imprisonment in the county jail for not more than one year, or by both such fine and imprisonment. As used in this section, sniperscope means any attachment, device or similar contrivance designed for or adaptable to use on a firearm which, through the use of a projected infrared light source and electronic telescope, enables the operator thereof to visually determine and locate the presence of objects during the nighttime. This section shall not prohibit the authorized use or possession of such sniperscope by a member of the armed forces of the United States or by police officers, peace officers, or law enforcement officers authorized by the properly constituted authorities for the enforcement of law or ordinances; nor shall this section prohibit the use or possession of such sniperscope when used solely for scientific research or educational purposes.

[krwada]

That post

FLIR is not illegal. It is completely different technology than standard nightvision devices, illuminated or not.

FLIR cores passively sense HEAT, not light. Thermal optics are completely legal to possess and use (except for hunting AFAIK), due to the fact that they use no projected/active light source.

I will repost what Quiet posted long ago:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...2&postcount=24

Yes ... it appears that IF the infrared light source is in anyway attached to the firearm ... then it is illegal. Otherwise ... an infrared light source as a separate not-attached to the firearm ... then that looks like it is legal?

At least ... this is what it looks like with the re-post.