where to find a scope with specific features

[Merc1138]

Like I said, if you ever end up behind an optic that doesn't use the ACSS mess that yours does, then what? It's time to remember another 5-8 images of which mark equals what for a different manufacturer's scope since anyone else's version wouldn't match yours, or learn how to use a standard reticle.

BTW, if you're going to accuse me of spreading false information, just what did I state was false? Let's go over what I said, and what image it happens to be in on your own product page here: https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...-14xffp308.htm

Your reticle has BDC holds(img 14).
Your reticle has wind holds for 5 and 10-mph full value winds(img 18).
Your reticle has leads for walking, jogging, and sprinting targets(img 17).
Your reticle has stadia ranging for torsos(img 16) and heads(img 17).
Your reticle has mils(img 13).
Your reticle has a fine aiming point with horseshoe(img 15).

So where did I say anything false about the reticle?

Let's continue then. Out of the images on your website, not one of those images gives me the line width or dot size of anything for using mils. While your horizontal mils are unobstructed, the vertical line is broken up unevenly by the BDC portion of the reticle. There is nothing "seamless" about that, if I can't use any portion of the reticle to determine a half mil, .2 mil, etc.

So there's nothing false about what I stated regarding the lack of information about the reticle subtensions for mils.

Moving on, I made a comment about the ACSS HUD reticles being proprietary for PA products. Is that statement incorrect? If so, will we ever see Bushnell, Steiner, US Optics, Vortex, SWFA, Burris, etc. using your ACSS HUD reticles in place of their own versions of BDC or even replacing their mil or moa reticles entirely? Even if not a replacement for their existing mil or moa reticles, do you think it's possible those manufacturers may create additional SKUs using your ACSS HUD reticles to supplement their existing product lines?

Is there some reason you believe that someone who learns how to use Vortex's mil reticle cannot quickly adapt to any of the other mil reticles I posted images of? If so, I'd like to hear it.

My comments toward the end about optics for specific purposes using simpler reticles designed for those specific purposes is a matter of personal preference. You can't tell me that my personal preference is wrong.

Seriously, if you're going to call someone out for spreading false information, you should be prepared to indicate what was actually false. Instead all you've forced me to do is re-iterate what was already stated in my posts above, while making rude comments to a customer who has stated they've purchased and would recommend your other products in multiple threads on the calguns forum when people have asked about optics to consider for their rifles. The other thing you've accomplished is making me reconsider recommendations of your products if representatives of your company are just going to post bogus claims about spreading false information as the only response to criticism about some your products based on their personal opinion and information your company provides on the product information page on the website. If the ACSS HUD reticles do have their subtensions documented for mils, then I would advise posting an image of that if your goal is to eliminate a complaint for that one particular aspect of the reticle.

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

Like I said, if you ever end up behind an optic that doesn't use the ACSS mess that yours does, then what? It's time to remember another 5-8 images of which mark equals what for a different manufacturer's scope since anyone else's version wouldn't match yours, or learn how to use a standard reticle.

BTW, if you're going to accuse me of spreading false information, just what did I state was false? Let's go over what I said, and what image it happens to be in on your own product page here: https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...-14xffp308.htm

Your reticle has BDC holds(img 14).
Your reticle has wind holds for 5 and 10-mph full value winds(img 18).
Your reticle has leads for walking, jogging, and sprinting targets(img 17).
Your reticle has stadia ranging for torsos(img 16) and heads(img 17).
Your reticle has mils(img 13).
Your reticle has a fine aiming point with horseshoe(img 15).

So where did I say anything false about the reticle?

Let's continue then. Out of the images on your website, not one of those images gives me the line width or dot size of anything for using mils. While your horizontal mils are unobstructed, the vertical line is broken up unevenly by the BDC portion of the reticle. There is nothing "seamless" about that, if I can't use any portion of the reticle to determine a half mil, .2 mil, etc.

So there's nothing false about what I stated regarding the lack of information about the reticle subtensions for mils.

Moving on, I made a comment about the ACSS HUD reticles being proprietary for PA products. Is that statement incorrect? If so, will we ever see Bushnell, Steiner, US Optics, Vortex, SWFA, Burris, etc. using your ACSS HUD reticles in place of their own versions of BDC or even replacing their mil or moa reticles entirely? Even if not a replacement for their existing mil or moa reticles, do you think it's possible those manufacturers may create additional SKUs using your ACSS HUD reticles to supplement their existing product lines?

Is there some reason you believe that someone who learns how to use Vortex's mil reticle cannot quickly adapt to any of the other mil reticles I posted images of? If so, I'd like to hear it.

My comments toward the end about optics for specific purposes using simpler reticles designed for those specific purposes is a matter of personal preference. You can't tell me that my personal preference is wrong.

Seriously, if you're going to call someone out for spreading false information, you should be prepared to indicate what was actually false. Instead all you've forced me to do is re-iterate what was already stated in my posts above, while making rude comments to a customer who has stated they've purchased and would recommend your other products in multiple threads on the calguns forum when people have asked about optics to consider for their rifles.

Are you referring to their thickness? They are set to .10 of a mil or .3438 of an MOA. The main reason for mil increments is range estimation. The HUD is a pre milled system designed for business. With that said we are not comparing apples to apples. Clearly the ACSS excels in the DMR role. Trust me when I tell you this, this reticle turns a new shooter into a great shooter, a great shooter into an expert and an expert into a magician.
It seemed to me you were criticizing reticle put together literally by input of some of the most elite snipers in the world. Perhaps I miss understood?

The math requiring to engage moving targets at unknown ranges is the mess.

-Dimitri

[Thorax]

Dear god.....

Dmitri, stop with the Chinese junk already.

The Steiner that was linked is nice, very nice.

even better ?

http://www.riflescopes.com/IOR-25-10x42-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44579.aspx

Real German Schott glass, top of the top of the line quality.
Absolute bad arse military grade scope, not a single skimp on anything.

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

Dear god.....



Dmitri, stop with the Chinese junk already.



The Steiner that was linked is nice, very nice.



even better ?

http://www.riflescopes.com/IOR-25-10x42-Tactical-30mm-Rifle-Scope-P44579.aspx

Real German Schott glass, top of the top of the line quality.

Absolute bad arse military grade scope, not a single skimp on anything.

You think glass is what will get you hits?
You think we have never used the mil system before?

Not going to feed into this.

I don't think you understand the math involved. Shooting at your range at targets of a known range dialing in is one thing unknown range engagements on targets that move is a whole other. Obviously this is going nowhere. We are often at Pendleton, Angeles,1000 palms and BLM locations. You are all welcome to come shoot.

Dimitri

[Merc1138]

Lets both take a breath I am not trying to call you, perhaps I miss understood your post. I was under the impression you were saying there is no mils in the HUD. Are you referring to their thickness? They are set to .10 of a mil or .3438 of an MOA. The main reason for mil increments is range estimation. The HUD is a pre milled system designed for business. With that said we are not comparing apples to apples. Clearly the ACSS excels in the DMR role. I get what your saying about going from an ACSS system to a mil only reticle would be a learning curve because now you have to do all the math. Trust me when I tell you this, this reticle turns a new shooter into a great shooter, a great shooter into an expert and an expert into a magician.
It seemed to me you were criticizing reticle put together literally by input of some of the most elite snipers in the world. Perhaps I miss understood?

Yes, that's more information than I had previously, and more information than what's on your website.

"ACSS Mess" lol if you think that you have no idea what your talking about. The math requiring to engage moving targets at unknown ranges is the mess, perhaps you should come out to Pendleton and give us a class on the mil system lol.

-Dimitri

And I was agreeing with you when you said to take a breather and maybe there was a misunderstanding of posts(although I'm not sure how since I quite clearly listed "mils" as a feature of your reticle in post #28 that you quoted, might have just been missed in the rest of the post). But continuing with the asinine commentary? Are you trying to lose customers? If you want to claim that your reticle is some super magic sniper DMR uber reticle for the m110, fine(I didn't even mention of that previously, which you posted). If you want to suggest to the OP that your reticle might be better for more... "dynamic" shooting environment, fine. I never disputed any of that.

But now that we've gotten any confusion out of the way, and actually more information about your own products out here, you're still going back to that attitude?

edit: Oops, looks like a took a little too long to type out that reply. Let's just drop the BS and get down to that last bit then.

The bottom line is your bad mouthing something you dont understand. If everything you see there was not needed it would not be there.

-Dimitri

No, the bottom line is that an employee of Primary Arms is arguing on a public forum with a prior customer about facts and personal opinion regarding criticism levied against some products, while making silly claims and calling them out as posting false information that turned out to be correct due to failing to read the entire post before responding.

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

Yes, that's more information than I had previously, and more information than what's on your website.







And I was agreeing with you when you said to take a breather and maybe there was a misunderstanding of posts(although I'm not sure how since I quite clearly listed "mils" as a feature of your reticle in post #28 that you quoted, might have just been missed in the rest of the post). But continuing with the asinine commentary? Are you trying to lose customers? If you want to claim that your reticle is some super magic sniper DMR uber reticle for the m110, fine(I didn't even mention of that previously, which you posted). If you want to suggest to the OP that your reticle might be better for more... "dynamic" shooting environment, fine. I never disputed any of that.



But now that we've gotten any confusion out of the way, and actually more information about your own products out here, you're still going back to that attitude?

Ok lets start again. What exactly are you asking me or saying. I am not trying to argue. The HUD has mils in it so you can still do the same mil holds as a standard mil reticle.


Dimitri

[Thorax]

You think glass is what will get you hits?
You think we have never used the mil system before?

Yes, I really do believe you have no idea how the mil system works
With the reticle you are trying to shove down everyones throat, I have a feeling you've never looked thru a scope before.
You want instant target acquisition, NOT trash to try and see around.

But, keep pumping that Chinese made garbage, I'll keep my real scopes with real reticles, and actually hit targets instead of looking at a reticle that has no functionality to a marksman.

Obviously this is going nowhere.

We are often at Pendleton, Angeles,1000 palms

Koff! 29 Palms

and BLM locations.

Read: we stand out in the middle of the desert looking for suckers to just walk by

You are all welcome to come shoot.

Dimitri

At your scopes ?
Would they prove a worthy target ?

Oh, BTW Dmitri....

I was range master at Pendleton '77-'83
I have absolutely no concept of what a scope is.....

[PrimaryArms]

No its 1000 palms. Come shoot it.

Dimitri

[PrimaryArms]

You got me I created the ACSS system on a napkin!

Dimitri

[Merc1138]

I wasn't asking you anything. I had made a statement regarding my opinion of the reticle in your 4-14FFP.

What's hilarious is that I had also made a comment regarding the horseshoe reticle and BDC for a low power scope(1-4 specifically, but 1-6 would also apply). What does PA make? A lower magnification 1-6x scope with a much simpler version of the ACSS reticle that seems more appropriate in general. What box happens to be sitting behind me that's waiting for 1 part to show up next week so it can be assembled while I've been going back and forth between some 1-4 and 1-6 power scopes for the past week or so having purchased and been satisfied with PA products in the past?


Now fortunately I'm aware that PA isn't a one man show, so just stop(I'm not concerned about your conversation with Thorax).

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

I wasn't asking you anything. I had made a statement regarding my opinion of the reticle in your 4-14FFP.



What's hilarious is that I had also made a comment regarding the horseshoe reticle and BDC for a low power scope(1-4 specifically, but 1-6 would also apply). What does PA make? A lower magnification 1-6x scope with a much simpler version of the ACSS reticle that seems more appropriate in general. What box happens to be sitting behind me that's waiting for 1 part to show up next week so it can be assembled while I've been going back and forth between some 1-4 and 1-6 power scopes for the past week or so having purchased and been satisfied with PA products in the past?





Now fortunately I'm aware that PA isn't a one man show, so just stop(I'm not concerned about your conversation with Thorax).

I sent you a PM. The 1-6 was made for the AR15 the Hud is more set for AR10,Rem700,M1A and so on. I re read your post and understand what you were saying now, I apologize if I came off with an attitude. If your southern Cali come out and shoot this thing!

Dimitri

[Merc1138]

Now that wasn't so hard, was it? The simple fact is, that no company is capable of creating products that will always satisfy everyone. It's just not possible. Some people will like some of your products, some people will like none, very few will like every product. You can't take it personally.

And no, I'm not in southern CA.

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

Now that wasn't so hard, was it? The simple fact is, that no company is capable of creating products that will always satisfy everyone. It's just not possible. Some people will like some of your products, some people will like none, very few will like every product. You can't take it personally.

And no, I'm not in southern CA.

Yeah your right, I have shoot my whole life and have spend years developing this. Its my baby so it becomes hard receiving criticism on it. Its like a stranger walking up to someone's kid and saying "man thats one ugly sucker!" Lol. I hope you understand. Everything on the reticle is a must. The guys were very adamant about having the ability to engage targets fast like an Acog yet have the ability to be very precise and still have mils. Necessity create it. The math dictated the look.

-Dimitri

[postal]

This reticle was created by years of research of sniper engagements and competitions.
We also worked with camp Pendleton USMC sniper instructors, everything is there for a reason.


-Dimitri

Last December at So Cal Precision Rifle Competition (SCPRC) I beat SSGT Hughes (Pendleton USMC Sniper School Instructor) and his partner (Also USMC Pendleton Sniper School Instructor-) whose name I cant recall...

With a Nikon buckmaster 4.5-14.... mil dot reticle/moa knobs....

Those two guys know what they're doing... They spanked me the previous couple years...

I finished 10th beating both of them and most of the six SDPD Snipers who are also REALLY good... A couple of them usually are in the top spots including last year was won by one of them...

I dont recall anyone using some overcomplicated reticle that takes a phone book sized manual to figure out unless someone used a horus.....

Seems to me some of the Marines were playing a joke on you what they wanted.... Did you fill out your ID-10-T requisition form yet?

If you're as good as you claim you are... why dont you shoot SCPRC or Nor Cal TBRC?

I shoot blm where no one can witness my greatness?

[PrimaryArms]

where to find a scope with specific features

Last December at So Cal Precision Rifle Competition (SCPRC) I beat SSGT Hughes (Pendleton USMC Sniper School Instructor) and his partner (Also USMC Pendleton Sniper School Instructor-) whose name I cant recall...



With a Nikon buckmaster 4.5-14.... mil dot reticle/moa knobs....



Those two guys know what they're doing... They spanked me the previous couple years...



I finished 10th beating both of them and most of the six SDPD Snipers who are also REALLY good... A couple of them usually are in the top spots including last year was won by one of them...



I dont recall anyone using some overcomplicated reticle that takes a phone book sized manual to figure out unless someone used a horus.....



Seems to me some of the Marines were playing a joke on you what they wanted.... Did you fill out your ID-10-T requisition form yet?



If you're as good as you claim you are... why dont you shoot SCPRC or Nor Cal TBRC?



I shoot blm where no one can witness my greatness?

Are you referring to SSGT Shawn Hughes? He confirmed the leads mph settings on the reticle and also suggested their placement. He was referred to me by SSGT David Grise retired USMC purple heart from Fallujah. Your welcome to come shoot it for your self. I have the only 2 prototypes.

Dimitri