Budget concious 1-4 scope

[Flat Broke]

I have been trying to nail down my optics choice for my 16" AR. For right now, it's going to be a multi-use rig (plinking, target duty at the range, and potential SHTF), down the road, I might like to try my hand at 3 gun or tactical rifle matches. Initially, I was thinking along the lines of an Aimpoint, and then a Larue flip-to-side mounted magnifier. This would get good versatility, but the idea of having the magnifier hanging off the side seems kinda problem prone.

So I started looking for 1-4 and dedicated 4x optics. I got a quick indoctrination in to the price of good glass, and realized that a Millet DMS1 might be a good compromise between afordability and performance/quality. The major downside to that scope seems to be that the donut reticle goes bye bye in bright sunlight. That got me to thinking; could I use something like a Bushnell Banner 1-4x32 and use BAC at 1X? The scope has a pretty prounced reticle, so I'm wondering if the reticle would carry over into the FOV of the weak eye to correctly superimpose. Does the fixed reticle, as opposed to a reflected dot like on an aimpoint cause problems?

One last question, would it be conceiveable to use a 1.5 power setting in conjunction with BAC? if so, that opens up quite a few possibilities in terms of illuminated reticle scopes.

Thanks in advance for any input,
Chris

[aplinker]

I've never seen a reticle that's sufficiently illuminated to do what you want.

If it existed, we'd buy it.

The only thing that does is K-Dot, Short Dot, Accupoint and SpecterDR

[Flat Broke]

That's a nice list, but tough to justify spending more on the optic than the rifle itself (excluding the accupoint). Is the major issue for MFGs, illuminating a First Focal Plane reticle? The reason I ask is because there are some decent 1-4 scopes out there, how hard would it be to superimpose a dot on the reticle? Taking the Banner as an example a dot in the middle of the Cicle-X reticle seems like it wouldnt' be a huge technological or cost issue.

Guess I'm going to have to think hard about what I really need/want because with a LaRue SPRE mount, the accupoint is way outta the budget right now.

Chris

[3GunFunShooter]

I have the Millet DMS scope 1-4. On sale now at Midway for $204.00
Over 56 pages on this one scope on AR15.com forums.
Great scope fo rthe money.

[brassburnz]

I've also been looking for AR optics for a 3-gun setup tactical class, which means you can have one optic. I'm currently running with a Leupold VX1 3-9X40 which is fine for longer distance shots but a little slow on close ones.

I have friends running Meopta, Accupoint, Acog, Millett DMS, etc. I was going to go with the Millett, but decided on the Accupoint because of the daylight problems.

In order to buy the Accupoint I had to scrimp and save for a while. I also sold a bunch of stuff here in Calguns. I still have to buy a mount, so I guess I'll be selling more stuff, but in the long run, I'm sure I'm better off getting the Accupoint.

Save up. It didn't take as long as I thought it would.

[Flat Broke]

I have the Millet DMS scope 1-4. On sale now at Midway for $204.00
Over 56 pages on this one scope on AR15.com forums.
Great scope fo rthe money.

I was ready to go the DMS route, but the consitent reports of the reticle not being bright enough for daylight use turned me away. If the reticle was a proven winner in bright and dim scenarios, I'd spend my money with Millet/Bushnell.

Chris

[Hoop]

I was ready to go the DMS route, but the consitent reports of the reticle not being bright enough for daylight use turned me away. If the reticle was a proven winner in bright and dim scenarios, I'd spend my money with Millet/Bushnell.

Chris

I'm in a similar boat and considering the IOR valdada 3x25 or maybe an ACOG if I can scrape the cash together.

Leupold makes a neat one for ~600 bucks, just search ebay for leupold SPR reticle and it should come up.

There is an illuminated bushnell trophy but I haven't seen or used it so I have no clue how bright it is.

Millett is OKAY, but not great. Also you need a Larue mount to run it right since the eye relief is really long.

PS - We're all searching for what you want and so far we haven't found it for anything less than a lot$$$. I'm hoping a manufacturer like Nikon who can make decent glass for not a lot of money will come out with a "tacticool" low power scope but so far nada.

[bigmike82]

I had a Bushnell Trophy T-Dot for a while, and it was quite bright. It was also very bulky and had no magnification, but the reticle was nice.

[aplinker]

Seems to me someone would get the point that putting a bright center dot on a moderately priced (even $400) scope would sell more than a few.

If they made it a 1MOA dot that's as bright as an Aimpoint, 1-4X with a BDC reticle scaled for 5.56 to 600yds at 4X (like an ACOG) it would be ideal.

Heck, if Trijicon just put the TA31F reticle in the Accupoint...

But I digress...

I had a Bushnell Trophy T-Dot for a while, and it was quite bright. It was also very bulky and had no magnification, but the reticle was nice.

that's essentially an Aimpoint... it's got a dot, but it's not a scope.

[maxicon]

The major downside to that scope seems to be that the donut reticle goes bye bye in bright sunlight.

Just to clarify, the DMS-1 reticle doesn't go away in bright light, just the illumination. The reticle's still there and is black.

You won't find a magnified scope with daylight illumination in that price range, and would need to bump up to the Trijicon Accupoint or K-Dot (or even higher) to get that.

[RobG]

I tried the 3x flip to side with my EO and didn't care for it. Seemed to be in the way when not in use. You could try a Weaver 1-3. Its a standard crosshair scope, no illum. and only 150ish. It gets good reviews by those that have them.

[3GunFunShooter]

You do not have to have a Larue mount for the Millet. There are many other choices out there. Is the Larue the best. Yes.
Check maxicon's post on mounts. Execellent post and information.

[Flat Broke]

Thanks for all the responses. I actually swapped PMs with OutlawDon discussing his experiences with the Weaver. That was one of the things that led me to think abou the Bushnell Banner 1-4. A simple 1-4 with a reasonably thick reticle that would show up well in different lighting scenarios. Essentially, if the ilumination of the Millet dies in daylight, you're left with a 1-4 etched reticle optic. While I'm a fan of saving for what I want rather than buying stop-gap solutions, I guess I'm not sure what I want. At this point, it's between buying something like a Weaver1-3 or Bushnell 1-4 to see if I'd like something with that magnification range, or just saving for an Accupoint and hoping I like it. I have other riffles, and will undoubtedly buy more, so spending $100 or so to try something like the Weaver or Bushnell isn't a total waste of money, as there are 22s it can live on.

Chris

[maxicon]

I have a Weaver V3, though I haven't used it a lot, and it's a fine scope so far, and lighter than the DMS-1. It's not very exciting, but is solid and functional.

That said, My DMS-1 is one of my favorite scopes these days, and I've been shooting it on a Walther G22 a lot lately. I like the speed and intuitiveness of the reticle and the flexibility of the illumination more than a traditional cross-hair, which I have many of. Then again, I like the Eotech reticle a lot too, and they're similar.

From a budget and test-drive perspective, the Bushnell Banner loses a lot of its value when you take it out of the box, as they're not a very desirable model. The Weaver does better, as more people like them, but they're not super popular for whatever reasons. The DMS-1 keeps a good resale value and is quick to resell as well, due to their popularity.

The illumination washes out in bright daylight, but works fine in less direct or strong light. It's not dim, like the Mueller illuminated scopes, but just isn't bright sun strong.

If someone stole all my scopes, the first magnified one I'd buy as a replacement would be another DMS-1.

[Flat Broke]

Thanks for the honest comparison of those three options. Considering there are other 1-4 alternatives, I'll take the Banner off my list if I buy-to-try.

Chris