Area 52 Optics - What was in the Sat. Night Test?

[emc002]

On Saturday at dusk, there was a side by side optics challenge.
Does anybody remember all the makes/models that were there?
Or if yours was in the test, please post.

I think I rembemer:
Ohsmily had a Leupold Mark 4? VX III?
draconianruler? (alex) had a Super Sniper 16x
somebody had a US Optics?
and I know there were others too...

Thanks in advance, trying to remember all I looked at that night...

[emc002]

Bump... I need new glass and need to remember which optics were there so I can then remember which I liked the best...
So I can then waste an ungodly amount of $ on a stupid little tube and a couple pieces of glass for my upcoming AR-10 build...

[rksimple]

While I wasn't there, what budget do you have in mind?

[DrunkSkunk]

Chigga had that 4-17x US Optics, best one IMO

[MrNiceGuy]

+1
USO was the best that night.
But it's no comparison considering the USO is a $2K scope.

[rksimple]

Nightforce has comprable glass to the USO for less. However, the options offered are severely lacking when compared to USO. Those options may or may not be important to you (FFP, custom reticles, EREK, etc). If glass is what you want, Schmidt and Bender is just about top dog and tough as nails.

[emc002]

I remeber looking through Chigga's and OhSmily's and thinking OhSmily's was a bit brighter and equally clear. What Leupold glass did Adam have?
I think Chigga's comment was "If I was buying right now based on this test, it would be hard for me to justify the $ on the USO over the Leupold."
Was that pretty close paraphrasing Chigga?

Since this glass will go on my AR10 that I'll be hoping will serve as a 1,000 yard rifle (I'll eventually have Randall build the upper), I'm not looking to skimp on glass based on price. However, the test that night did not sell me on the price difference between USO and Leupold.

I figure that glass between $1500 and $2500 is appropriate for this rifle.
Of course, I'm not sure which lower I'll build it on (Fulton or Noveske), so I'll eventually leave that up to Randall to decide.
This build will take me at least a year or two to get all the components unless I win the lottery, but I wanted to get locked in on glass since the Area 52 shoot test was still fresh in my aging mind...

[rksimple]

I remeber looking through Chigga's and OhSmily's and thinking OhSmily's was a bit brighter and equally clear. What Leupold glass did Adam have?
I think Chigga's comment was "If I was buying right now based on this test, it would be hard for me to justify the $ on the USO over the Leupold."
Was that pretty close paraphrasing Chigga?

Since this glass will go on my AR10 that I'll be hoping will serve as a 1,000 yard rifle (I'll eventually have Randall build the upper), I'm not looking to skimp on glass based on price. However, the test that night did not sell me on the price difference between USO and Leupold.

I figure that glass between $1500 and $2500 is appropriate for this rifle.
Of course, I'm not sure which lower I'll build it on (Fulton or Noveske), so I'll eventually leave that up to Randall to decide.
This build will take me at least a year or two to get all the components unless I win the lottery, but I wanted to get locked in on glass since the Area 52 shoot test was still fresh in my aging mind...

Looking through a few scopes in the dwindling light is hardly a test of a scope. Glass is secondary. Does it hold zero? Does it track correctly, repeatably? How will it hold up to a few rifle classes or a fall or two? What about options? Do you want mil/mil, FFP, etc.? What do you want the scope to do?

If glass is your main concern, and you don't mind spending $2500, save a few hundred more and buy the S&B 5-25x56. As far as glass is concerned, it blows everything else away.

[emc002]

Looking through a few scopes in the dwindling light is hardly a test of a scope. Not the only test but a relevant one.
Does it hold zero? Does it track correctly, repeatably? How will it hold up to a few rifle classes or a fall or two? Is there really a difference between Leupold and USO on this?
Do you want mil/mil, FFP, etc.? Mil/Mil. Not opposed to FFP. Definitely no SFP.
What do you want the scope to do? Take me as far as the rifle will shoot accurately.

See my answers above.

[rksimple]

See my answers above.

Yes. There is a difference between USO and Leupold in the tracking category. Call and ask Leupold if their knobs are in true MOA or SMOA (inches per hundred yards). Then call back and get a different guy on the phone and ask the same thing. They MIGHT give you the same answer. Leupold doesn't have quite the standards that USO or Nightforce may have. There was a big stink made a while back about the reticles in certain mk4's being rotated (off of the plane of the erector movement). Many sent their scopes in to find that Leupold considered them to be within spec. They had 3 degrees of error as "acceptable". I've read Nightforces are held to 1 degre, don't know it for a fact. USO will be better than Leupold in this category.

If you want mil adjustments with a mil reticle, USO or NF is the way. Loopy has mil knobs but they're in .05 mil increments. Thats a lot of twisting. With the USO you can have around 10 mils of elevation in one turn of the knob. You won't get lost in the rotations with that one. The NF has 5 mils per turn so you can get to 1k in less than 2 turns with decent ballistics.

As far as first and second focal plane is concerned, I'm not sure if I understand what you said. You said "Not opposed to FFP. Definitely no SFP." If its not FFP, then it'll be SFP (at least with the scopes we're talking about. There are some hybrids out there.). Loopy and USO both have ffp scopes. NF should have one out soon.

I guess I should have asked for what you'd be using the rifle/scope combo. Are you going to be shooting long ranges on single stationary targets? Multiple targets/multiple distances? Moving targets? If its just for long range target work, as well as the occasional tactical match, a SFP NF may fit the bill. Truthfully, if I didn't care about FFP, I'd buy a Nightforce over a USO any day. The return on investement is much better. Glass is very comprable. Once the NF FFP hits the market, I don't think I'll have to buy another S&B! It really seems like a winner.

Was there a nightforce there to peek through? They really offer a lot for the money.

ETA: Sorry if it seems I'm bashing leupold. They do make a good product for a given price point. Many of their scopes hold up to plenty of abuse and keep on tickin'. Some don't. They really make a good scope for most uses. But in the $1500, there are far better options.

[emc002]

ETA: Sorry if it seems I'm bashing leupold. They do make a good product for a given price point. Many of their scopes hold up to plenty of abuse and keep on tickin'. Some don't. They really make a good scope for most uses. But in the $1500, there are far better options.

Not at all, your input has been very helpful!

As far as first and second focal plane is concerned, I'm not sure if I understand what you said. You said "Not opposed to FFP. Definitely no SFP." If its not FFP, then it'll be SFP (at least with the scopes we're talking about. There are some hybrids out there.). Loopy and USO both have ffp scopes. NF should have one out soon.

Sorry, was jumbling it some other scopes outside of those we've been referencing. I don't like the NF SFP, but didn't know they were coming out with a FFP... I may have to wait and compare.

Are you going to be shooting long ranges on single stationary targets? Multiple targets/multiple distances? Moving targets?

Yes. Yes. <25% of the time.

Was there a nightforce there to peek through? They really offer a lot for the money?

Not that I recall, but that's why I started the thread initially!
All I remember right now were a 16x Super Sniper, Burris Fullfield, USO, Leupold and a couple others...

[rksimple]

Well, its a tough decision what would be best for you. I really didn't know what I wanted in a scope until I shot a dozen or so matches, saw many different COFs and saw what worked and what didn't. I ended up buying a Schmidt and Bender 5-25x56 PMII. I came down to the conclusion that I wanted a variable FFP in the 4-20x range, mil/mil, lots of adjustment per rev on the knob, illumination, and side parallax controls. Secondary to all that was excellent glass. I would be fine with loopy quality glass. Though, I have picked up a few points here and there being able to spot my misses on paper at 300+ yards! I'm very spoiled with the glass in the S&B, but is it worth an extra $1200 or so over a FFP NF? Probably not.

The biggest thing you have to decide is FFP or not. That will determine what your options are at this point. If you anticipate using the scope/rifle for multiple targets at multiple distances (especially timed), movers, etc. then FFP has an advantage.

[aplinker]

I would like to point out one other thing that might be obvious, but should be mentioned.

While it might seem like what you did was a comparison of "glass," I would suggest you did more of a comparison of scopes. To really compare glass you'd need apples-apples (same magnification, objective size, relief, etc). The whole optical configuration affects what you see.


(PS - Was really nice to meet you and you have amazing taste in cigars -- that was one of the best I've ever had)

[emc002]

I would like to point out one other thing that might be obvious, but should be mentioned.

While it might seem like what you did was a comparison of "glass," I would suggest you did more of a comparison of scopes. To really compare glass you'd need apples-apples (same magnification, objective size, relief, etc). The whole optical configuration affects what you see.


(PS - Was really nice to meet you and you have amazing taste in cigars -- that was one of the best I've ever had)

True enough, I do believe that all scopes were set to the same magnification level for a more accurate comparison.

Glad you enjoyed the cigar, did you end up with one of the Onyx Reserve?

[aplinker]

That makes the comparison better.

Yes, I did. Amazing.

True enough, I do believe that all scopes were set to the same magnification level for a more accurate comparison.

Glad you enjoyed the cigar, did you end up with one of the Onyx Reserve?