Reticle Selection

[castgold]

I couldn't find what I was looking for with the search tool. I'm in the process of choosing a first scope/rings/rifle for myself. This will be initially for punching paper at 100-200 yds, then onward towards 600+, then onto live game when I'm comfortable with the fundamentals. I'll save the rifle selection for another thread.

I've found threads regarding lens quality, light transmission, sight picture diameter, but not about choosing an appropriate reticle. I was able to learn some information about range estimation with the USCM and Army mil dot system and I like the thought that goes into learning and using that system with a drop chart. What are the attributes of other available reticle options? Info on situations that call for illumination would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kris

[robert101]

This is a brave new world and much different from just shooting. I'm referring to ballistics. Do you have a firm understanding of ballistics? I prefer the Army round mil dot reticle for range finding and use an Android app called Strelok for my ballistics calculator. Do yourself a favor and research Mil Dot, Millaridian, and Minute of Arch. Not only the reticle but the scope adjustment knobs are critical. For instance, my reticle has mil dots spaced my milliridians and my adjustment knobs are adjusted by clicks in inches (1/8" @ 100 yards). So I use converstions from inches back to milliridians to make adjustments.

I may have strayed from your question as I was attempting to read between the lines. Anyway, you may want to do more research on the application of the entire scope before just picking a reticle.

[castgold]

This is a brave new world and much different from just shooting. I'm referring to ballistics. Do you have a firm understanding of ballistics? I prefer the Army round mil dot reticle for range finding and use an Android app called Strelok for my ballistics calculator. Do yourself a favor and research Mil Dot, Millaridian, and Minute of Arch. Not only the reticle but the scope adjustment knobs are critical. For instance, my reticle has mil dots spaced my milliridians and my adjustment knobs are adjusted by clicks in inches (1/8" @ 100 yards). So I use converstions from inches back to milliridians to make adjustments.

I may have strayed from your question as I was attempting to read between the lines. Anyway, you may want to do more research on the application of the entire scope before just picking a reticle.

You didn't stray at all. These are things I want to know.

I've started studying ballistics to better understand bullet drop as a function of distance and target size, in relation mil dot spacing. I've seen 4 different formulas to calculate range in yards and meters using the mil dot system and was drawn to it. The 1/4 MOA increments and parallax adjustment are on most of the scopes I've looked at, and for now, I think finer adjustments can be for a future platform. Practicing the arithmetic at the range is where I plan on spending the initial months/years/ammo in order to build my charts. The other considerations for choosing a scope will be for other threads. Wanted to keep this one simple for now.


Thanks for the help.

[FMJBT]

I like mil based reticles as opposed to moa. The math is easier for my low brain to comprehend, LOL. For markings, I prefer the thinner lines or hash marks as opposed to dots or ovals. The thin lines tend to be a bit more precise for both range estimation and holdovers. I've also come to appreciate reticles with an extended lower portion for holding over such as the MP-8 used on a lot of the IOR scopes. The mil markings extend all the way down the lower leg of the reticle, allowing use for holdovers out to the effective max range of most cartridges. Taking that concept a bit further, there are reticles like the Horus and G2DMR that have mil markings for both holdover and windage. I prefer the simpler G2DMR over the more complicated Horus reticles. It's basic enough that it doesn't overwhelm you with features, but has enough holdover and windage points to make it extremely versatile for long range use.

[NapalmCheese]

I like mil-dot reticles in general, and have one on my hunting rifle. The ability to measure and range things as well as being able to use the mil-dots as a BDC type reticle is very useful.

Looking back I wish I had spent another couple of hundred bucks on a scope that that had matching (mil) knobs.

Having hash marks instead of dots denoting the mil spacing may be useful, I've not tried it. I do, however, like that I know how big a single dot is, it makes it easier for me to subdivide the space between dots. I've found that hunting I don't want to fiddle with the knobs, instead I range with the dots, do a quick calculation and hold over an appropriate amount. I practice both holding over and clicking in at the range.

I couldn't find what I was looking for with the search tool. I'm in the process of choosing a first scope/rings/rifle for myself. This will be initially for punching paper at 100-200 yds, then onward towards 600+, then onto live game when I'm comfortable with the fundamentals. I'll save the rifle selection for another thread.

I've found threads regarding lens quality, light transmission, sight picture diameter, but not about choosing an appropriate reticle. I was able to learn some information about range estimation with the USCM and Army mil dot system and I like the thought that goes into learning and using that system with a drop chart. What are the attributes of other available reticle options? Info on situations that call for illumination would also be appreciated.

Thanks,
Kris

[ionion]

I think depending how quickly you will be changing the ranges and doping shots would determine if you need to stress this much. The mil relation formulas are just that. if you need to convert to MOA just another math function to plug in. if you want a quick and dirty intro on them you could watch this.

dont get me wrong, i love a Mil/Mil FFP scope just as much as anyone else. BUT im not going to try and kid myself, i use a laser range finder and a ballistic calculator when i MUST hit with 1 shot.

*edit check out this vid of them taking mile long shots with different reticles and adjustment scopes and see how quickly that dude can give a holdover correction by doing the math. so crazy

[Siberian23]

I initially thought I wanted a moa scope due to often thinking in inches and feet. I went with a mil scope because I liked the spacing on the reticle more. I am happy that I went with a mil scope with mil knobs. One thing that is nice is if I want to dial in the scope I can look at my poa and poi and compare that to the reticle and go oh that's 1/2 a mil or 1/4 a mil and dial my know .5 mils or .2 mils each click is 1/10 mil. The same can be done with a moa scope and moa knobs.

My biggest advice would be to consider what the ultimate job of the scope and rifle will be. A target rifle and scope for tactical style ranging matches, a mil/mil ffp scope is awesome because at any magnification you can range.

A precision long range rifle a ffp scope may be a disadvantage because the cross hairs may be to thick at the higher magnification levels for what you would want.

For a hunting rifle a scope like a zeiss with the zeiss rapid z reticle might be nice as a quicker option for a hold over, range with a laser range finder then hold your scope at the correct yardage marking on the reticle.

The usage of the rifle will dictate the required equipment. The same is true for the scope, the magnification level, the reticle, the mounting hardware, the rifle, the caliber, the diameter of barrel, the stock choice, the ammo selection and grain/style of bullet, etc.

As a general rule having a matching reticle and knobs is nice.

[castgold]

Thanks for the help everyone.

I think depending how quickly you will be changing the ranges and doping shots would determine if you need to stress this much. The mil relation formulas are just that. if you need to convert to MOA just another math function to plug in. if you want a quick and dirty intro on them you could watch this.

dont get me wrong, i love a Mil/Mil FFP scope just as much as anyone else. BUT im not going to try and kid myself, i use a laser range finder and a ballistic calculator when i MUST hit with 1 shot.

*edit check out this vid of them taking mile long shots with different reticles and adjustment scopes and see how quickly that dude can give a holdover correction by doing the math. so crazy

1 mile with a gas operated gun in .308. Wow. The shooter with the .338 didn't look phased at all.

I initially thought I wanted a moa scope due to often thinking in inches and feet. I went with a mil scope because I liked the spacing on the reticle more. I am happy that I went with a mil scope with mil knobs. One thing that is nice is if I want to dial in the scope I can look at my poa and poi and compare that to the reticle and go oh that's 1/2 a mil or 1/4 a mil and dial my know .5 mils or .2 mils each click is 1/10 mil. The same can be done with a moa scope and moa knobs.

My biggest advice would be to consider what the ultimate job of the scope and rifle will be. A target rifle and scope for tactical style ranging matches, a mil/mil ffp scope is awesome because at any magnification you can range.

A precision long range rifle a ffp scope may be a disadvantage because the cross hairs may be to thick at the higher magnification levels for what you would want.

For a hunting rifle a scope like a zeiss with the zeiss rapid z reticle might be nice as a quicker option for a hold over, range with a laser range finder then hold your scope at the correct yardage marking on the reticle.

The usage of the rifle will dictate the required equipment. The same is true for the scope, the magnification level, the reticle, the mounting hardware, the rifle, the caliber, the diameter of barrel, the stock choice, the ammo selection and grain/style of bullet, etc.

As a general rule having a matching reticle and knobs is nice.

I'm looking at the Zeiss and Vortex scopes now. Is the Zeiss Rapid Z only usable on max magnification?

[ar15barrels]

I'm looking at the Zeiss and Vortex scopes now. Is the Zeiss Rapid Z only usable on max magnification?

All 2nd focal plane scopes are only accurate at one magnification setting.
It varies with brand as to where the manufacturer chose to have the reticle accurate.
On nightforces up to 22x, it is at max power.
Above 22x, I think they still have you use 22x, but I don't own any nightforces scopes that are over 22x to confirm this.
Leupold uses max power.
My Nikon 4.5-14 has the 12x marking in redto let you know to use 12x for when you need the reticle to be accurate while the other markings are in white.

FFP is a significant advantage in the ability to use the reticle accurately at all magnifications.

[ar15barrels]

A precision long range rifle a ffp scope may be a disadvantage because the cross hairs may be to thick at the higher magnification levels for what you would want.

choosing a good reticle design elminates that problem.
The newest FFP reticle designs are taking this issue into account by making the center 1/2 mil lines much narrower as seen in the bushnell G2DMR reticle:



or simply leaving the center 2/10 mil open as I did in my CAPRC reticle:

[HK Dave]

That's a nice reticle... that explains all the excitement around the G2DMR.

[Siberian23]

I believe the Zeiss Rapid Z does not have a set power for its accuracy. I do not own one so this is from memory of helping my friend set his up. I believe you go on to the zeiss sight input all of your rifle data and load data, then it pumps out the correct magnification setting for the reticle to be accurate. The Rapid Z is not a mil dot or moa reticle it is its own thing, the numbers on it are the yardage at what you would holdover for the distance to your shot after you have determined the distance either by a lrf or using another part of the Rapid Z reticle. Also it is designed to be zero'd at 200 yards.

In my opinion I think its a fairly cool idea for a hunting rifle, however, to make it work correctly you essentially have to use your scope as a fixed power scope.

[Siberian23]

Castgold, I purchased a Viper Vortex PST 6-24x50 FFP with the Mil reticle and Mil knobs. I have been happy with it. I do not have a high dollar setup by any means and so for me the scope was a good middle of the road scope. By comparison I was considering scopes that were $1500 to $2000+, to simplify it I gave myself a budget of $1000 and went with the Viper PST due to the outstanding customer service reviews it has received.

The Zeiss Conquest I set up for my hunting buddy has better glass in my opinion, it appeared to be brighter and more vibrant to my eyes, however, I don't use my rifle for hunting and I can easily dial elevation and windage for longer distance shooting with using my mil's as markings for how far off my sighter shots are. I am very happy with my scope. I am also dreading the day I look through a high end scope that gives me the view I saw through the Zeiss with all the cool guy features my Vortex has, I dread it because I really don't want to go drop that kind of coin on a scope.

[castgold]

Siberian23-
I will either get the Vortex that you have, or the Bushnell with the G2DMR. Thanks for chiming in to help me.

AR15Barrels-
Did US Optics custom make that for the CaPRClub? Dead sexiness right thur.

[Siberian23]

I don't think you can go wrong with either.